Are You Maximizing Your Most Important Software? Expert PMS Advice From Simon Smith of Storable Newbook - Glamping, RV Park & Campground

Why PMS Data Sees Everything

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome back to another episode of the Outdoor Hospitality Podcast. I'm Connor Schwab, your host, and today I'm joined by Simon Smith. Welcome, Simon.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hey, Connor, great to see you.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Yeah, a pleasure having you on. Simon is the general manager or he's oversees the RV and outdoor hospitality verticals and marine verticals at Storable New Book. He's been there for about five years and has a strong background in tech high growth companies before that. And I'm really excited to have him on today because, well, one, we've never had the chance to have someone so senior in leadership from a property management software on the podcast before. And this is a first. And the reason why this is really interesting is because when you're running, there's very, very few entities, groups, or people in the industry that get such a detailed as well as high-level view of an entire industry, whether that's different geographical regions, across different verticals, across different niches. But property management softwares are, you know, allowing and creating the bookings for, you know, nearly every transaction that happens in our space. And so they have really good data, really good visibility to macro and micro trends that are happening. So this is a real treat today. I'm I'm excited to jump in with Simon.

Extend-Your-Stay Promotions That Add £££

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Simon, I guess to kick things off, if there was one thing that a lot of operators might be missing or that could really move the needle for them in terms of, you know, improving their bottom line, what advice or recommendation would you give?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, so we see two things on that front, Connor. It's great to be here and great to meet your audience and represent storable new book and our RV vertical on the podcast. I think there's two pieces. I think revenue per reservation is an area where I think a lot of operators test, they'll throw $5 in here or $10 in there to see if they can optimize their ADR. I think there's other ways to cut that data and really analyze it. And there's tools that will do that. So I think that's one area. And then I think where operators have been winning this year has been in the promotion space. And that promotion space is extend your stay. And we see in our data that the average promotion for operators that are really leaning into that, and it doesn't matter what software you're on, there'll be tools within that software. But in our data, we've seen you know it a $41 increase of revenue, and 59% of that has been coming actually at the tail end of the stay. So staying engaged with the customer or the or the guest, and then extending that stay one more night. They're enjoying the location. You could be close to a fishing event, a sporting event, whatever it may be. And then if you're staying engaged with that guest through that stay, through the texting and the tools that are available in your software, we're seeing that they're extending that extra night or two. Really, really it's it's really been optimized this year. So operators are really lean into that. I think that the other piece around that is you may think it's hard to go get those extra nights, but I think once customers or guests in market at a location, based on some of the macro pressure that we're seeing around inflation in that, it really becomes an affordable vacation. And that one more night really starts, they start to lean into those uh opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Yeah, and we've actually used that at our properties. Our account manager helped set us up, but maybe we could walk the listener through like exactly what that looks like. And my understanding, you correct me if I'm wrong, is you know, a guest books a stay, and either before their arrival or once they've already started their stay, if their unit is available the night after the end of their stay, it could send them an automated text and it could say, hey, in case you're interested in booking one more night, we have that available. You can extend your booking with this link here. Or it could say, hey, we'll give you 25% off if you book another night's stay. And then the guests can go ahead and make that. And it's all automated. Like once it's set up, you know, the staff never has to do anything. It's all an automatic process now. Is that what you were just talking about?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, 100% correct. I think the efficiency in your staff, they're busy checking in, checking out, making sure property's running to the plan. Yeah, you can set all that functionality up. Some softwares have it automated as we do at New Book. Some operator softwares do not, and there's probably a little bit more work and a little bit more manual. But anywhere it's automated, it's a it's a plug-in and play, and then the promotions already start to happen with that. The last piece on that is though, you can also set it up that as you look at your occupancy and you're you know what's coming in, what's coming out. We can set it up on that automated fashion as well. And we also have what we call a booking chart optimizer inside of New Book, where it's always looking at the days and how the bookings are grouping and coming in, and then it's optimizing windows and sites within it to optimize you to create higher upgrades from moving someone from one site to another as it starts to scan through and look at the availability across the park. And that's where that magic really starts to come in because then it says we don't have a booking coming in until Tuesday, why don't you extend to Monday? And it allows to optimize that that revenue on a higher yielding potential pad that you may be staying at as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah, and coming from I come from a sales background, and you know, the easiest sale you ever have is is the customer you already have. You know, the one who's already booked with you is most likely to and the easiest person to pay you more money to extend their stay or for an upgrade. And so, you know, that effort, putting that in in an automated way and just setting that up one time can go so far at no cost. And it might be a lot of a lower lift or easier revenue than going out and trying to earn new customers instead of just capitalizing on the one that's already in your door.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah, I think anytime a guest feels they've they've had extended value or service and and seamlessness to it, I think it makes them more intuitive to say, this has been a great experience, this is a great place to stay. It also then allows you to remarket that back to them, as you were saying. And I think people are people will come and stay at locations multiple times, especially if it's families and they're traveling, you know, on summer breaks and things like that, and the amenities are close by, whether it's fishing, as I mentioned, boating, whatever it may be, right? And once that once that's engaged and they go, hey, we can extend, you actually find that the guest is coming back and asking you in a proactive way, is there any chance we can extend similar to the promotion we had the last time we stayed? And then that interaction then starts to give you that trust gauge. And I think I think any guest, me traveling hotels, I'm very loyal to a program, I'm very loyal to a brand. And I think consumers are looking for that consistency and comfort or familiarity of where they're staying and where they're going and who they're who they're staying with. I think that's important as well.

Upsells That Guests Actually Buy

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yeah. And in in in addition to extending stay, you can use that same process and technology to do room upgrades, a romance package, bundle of firewood, s'mores, a telescope rental in the same way. So it's a really powerful tool that you know most PMSs should have. I know it's really easy with New Book, but we have that set up for our shopping cart. So after someone puts their unit in the shopping cart, they can add a romance package for 40 bucks or a telescope rental for 20 bucks. And it's just it's it's easy for us.

Customer Success As Your Extra Team

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, I think the the other key with your PMS provider is also one of the things that we put a lot of effort into is the proactive approach from our customer success management team. So we have all of our parks under a CSM based on region that allows them to be very familiar, they understand what's working and what's not in market. When you partner that together, these become an extension of your business. And that's where I call that the transfer of trust as well. Our CSM is an employee working for you in conjunction with helping you set up best practices or tools in market that we see are working, and all we're doing is sharing that knowledge across that. And we cover that in monthly meetings, we can cover that in QBRs. So if you're on a new book platform and you haven't uh had that type of engagement, you do have a CSM, and I'm happy to make sure we find out who your CSM is. However, they are proactive, they're not waiting for you to come in. So at some point they will they will cycle through and give you that service and that knowledge as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

I just emailed our CSM today about getting another card reader at one of our properties. So yes, yeah, they've been very happy.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, so and I think I think the word success in that in that function is very important. It's not support, it's not training. They are dedicated to your success. So I think that's something that all operators should lean on. And if depending on what property management system you're using, I would probably check in to see do you have these resources available to you depending on PMS of choice.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

I remember someone saying, before you're thinking of hiring on with any client, always call their customer support line and ask them to help you with a fake problem and see how that experience is. And I could just tell you from calling customer support lines of you know, some of the OTAs like booking.com or Expedia, it's an absolute nightmare. And it was always refreshing calling the new book helpline because I would get someone, they would be dedicated, easy to help, and it was always a very easy and seamless process.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, I think one of the things that we have leaned into as well is we've hired a really good group of people on that CSM function and support as well from industry. These are people that have worked the front desks, they've been marketing directors or managers for park groups and have worked in enterprise SMB, mid-market type operations. So we sort of have the spectrum covered on the experience. And if your CSM isn't from one of those specific areas, we lean on and lead with and we pull on that knowledge from the team to ensure that all the operators are getting what they need. So I think industry experience in those roles is critical because then they understand what your day-to-day operations are and the challenges you face because they've faced them with you.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Simon’s Background In Tech Growth

SPEAKER_02 9:56

The so zooming out a little bit, can you tell us a little bit about your background and your position and kind of like what you're responsible within Storable Number?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah, so I've been around a while, so a bit long in the tooth. But I've been with Storable five years. I think what attracted me to Storable was the simplification of asset class. So we are we are in the storage software business, we are in the marine software business, and then we're also in RV and campground. And what makes us unique with that, just for the context for your viewers, is that when we think about innovation, the asset class is very similar in functionality. So renting a space, optimizing a space, and then recruiting that customer loyalty. It allows us to move technology across verticals. So drag and pull, innovate here, pass it along to the next vertical. And we can talk about a little bit of that with AI. So my background, you know, started many, many years ago in California. Long story short, I read a book direct from Dell or direct by Dell, knew the internet was going to be something, decided that I needed to get into online marketplaces or industries, and then got into an automotive marketplace, which was a company called Carcerate Internet Brands. Long story short, you know, whether it's the product of automotive, hospitality, wherever it fits in, once you understand the product and you understand the connection of that product with the operator, and then the next step of that to the consumer, that's what I've specialized in. And then building out go-to-market teams, technology functions, product management, marketing that supports that. And where I've had the benefit of working in startups is what we did yesterday, we're not going to do tomorrow, but we might go back and do what we did two days ago because we're testing and betering that. So I bring a lot of knowledge across 25 plus years working in technology go-to-market enablement functions in the United States across a variety of different product lines. But at the end of the day, once you know your product and you know your customer and what they're trying to achieve, the playbook of helping us be successful, myself and the teams that work for us with our operators is critical. So we work on our culture, we work on our engagement, and then we work on our scalability. And I think the last piece on the scalability is the best audience to help you address a market functionality or technology is the operator. So ingest, listen, optimize, and then refine your product accordingly. Because if they're if we're making their lives more seamless, it'll help us build the right products as well. So I've worked in small caps, done a couple of IPOs, I've been very fortunate in my time here in the US, originally from New Zealand. So that's why I have that funky southern Texas accent now. Oh, we love Kiwis. But yeah, but I think that what I what I thrive on is if the customer is happy, and that's sort of how I was raised in New Zealand, is that take care of the customer always. Our customer is the operator, but how do we help them create that same experience with their customer or guests as well? So that's that's sort of that's sort of been the charter I've been on.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

I love it. The with can you give us a little background on Storable New Book?

Storable And Newbook Footprint

SPEAKER_02 13:07

You know, what's the what's its size and what's the footprint maybe in North America or the US in terms of size, asset types, you know, and what's the kind of the core function?

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah, so Storable is started out as a Sparefoot, which was a marketplace. This is like 18 years ago, to help people find storage facilities coming out of college. Uh two founders didn't, they were going to go away from college and then they needed to go find something. So anyway, long story short, they created the marketplace of how to go find a storage facility and then book it online. From there, we moved into software, which was the facility management systems, and we built out a very strong and very technology-based driven, seamless, think of it as an ecosystem for storage operators. But as we sort of branched in through that software, you have a primary facility management system, we also handle tenant insurance, we also handle property insurance, and then we have a big payments processing engine behind the system as well. It allowed us to understand as asset class investors were looking to move from storage, they were looking at marinas, they were looking at RV campgrounds. So we have actually have some customers that cross across all three of those verticals, which is great. And our solution will be to try and tile that together. But for storable, we we have a right around, if you include RV and marine, right around 36,000 different facilities or operators on all three platforms. 80% of that would still be sitting in the RV space today. But we've seen enormous growth in our marine vertical, leveraging Molo and Stellar, and certainly in the boat rental, in the boat club industry as well. And then we acquired New Book as our third vertical right around three and a half, three years ago, three and a half years ago. And that was just to create another vertical of us running through hey, this is our foundational product. How do we bring tools that help operators grow their businesses more efficiently? And that's sort of what the vision has always been. So NewBook has ironically, we're a global company, so we have a huge presence in APAC. We have right around 45 or 46% of market share in the APAC region. And then we have right around 1,200, I think, operators here in the US or locations on our platform. A lot more competitive up here. You've got like 12 or 13 different providers to choose from. And where we've really found our sweet spot has been maybe in the larger, more sophisticated park operators when you think of multi-park. However, as you think it through SMB, there's a lot of downstream opportunity that we're we're getting ready to dive into here. And we've we've put our toe into it very softly in the last 12 months. But I'm excited for what we're going to be bringing to market for SMB in 2027. So some more to offer there. And I think 70%, 75% of the total addressable market in the US is SMB. So it's an interesting stat when you think about the RV camp ground space. Glamping's completely different. You know, glamping sort of has a higher ADR and a different experience to it. So you don't need to have as many sites, but most sites that we see across the US fall into that SMB category.

Sponsor Offer: Newbook Discount

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Hello, listeners. I wanted to share a quick story. I recently started to help a client set up their three properties, two RV resorts and one glamping resort. And they wanted me to help roll out their new tech stack. And at the center of that is the PMS or the property management software. These clients decided to go with storable new book, and thank goodness they did, because the property management software is the nucleus of everything that you'll set up: your website, your social media, your bookings, your cleanings, everything. And it really handles the entire process from both the front customer facing side as well as the back end and coordinating cleaners and things like that. So it's, you know, setting up your photos and your pricing and your dynamic pricing and revenue management and your unit information and ensuring a smooth and customizable shopping cart experience to ensure a high conversion rate with your customers. And then they have all these great automations. It can send texts and emails to your guests before they arrive on the day they arrived or after to get feedback and reviews. And you can track all your financial performance. And then it also helps with the back end and analyzing your data. I honestly couldn't be happier with the experience. If I call the new book helpline, I get an answer right away with someone who can help me like three or four standing meetings each week with different members of their teams to set up the different capabilities and softwares, or even using them to set up these property websites, or using them for digital marketing services and SEO. And honestly, it has been excellent. So I chased down storable new book to ask them if they would be sponsors of the podcast because I really believed in their product. Fortunately, they were willing. So they are today's sponsors. So if you're unhappy with your PMS or you're launching a product and shopping, definitely give them a call. And if you let them know that you came from the Outdoor Hospitality Podcast, they'll give you 15% off your new book signature subscriptions. Can't recommend storable new book highly enough. Go check them out. Thanks. Gotcha. Gotcha. It makes sense.

Macro Trends: Occupancy And ADR

SPEAKER_02 18:17

And so maybe we could zoom out a little bit. What are you seeing in the RV? And I guess by RV, is that accurate to say that includes RV campground and glamping? It's all in that term.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah, so RV camping is how we prescribe it here in the US. We're very sensitive to it because when we think about our APAC market, Australia, New Zealand, or Asia Pacific, it's Hole A parks, Garavan Park. So we brand it one way here and we we accommodate to the to the market to make sure that we're relatable to our customers. But here in the US, RV camping and then glamping sort of is the is the is the plus sign on that. But when we think about the industry holistically, I think, and what I've seen this year, there's been a lot of macro pressure. I think there's COVID was a big boom for RV. A lot of people jumped into this industry. I think some of those capital or capital arrangements are coming to fruition. Interest rates aren't in a great spot today. Consumer confidence is in a funky place today as well. But I do think that getting out of the city, out of the metros, and what the space has to offer for operators, if they're attracting the consumers the right way, there's plenty of opportunity here to achieve that. And I think two things we've seen, or three things we've seen this year, is we've seen occupancy flat, maybe down a percent, two percent overall, holistically, and we sort of took an aggregation of that. It could change by multi-park to SMB a little bit. We've seen a 7.6% increase in the ADR, and then revenue per reservation across the whole marketplace. We've seen just roughly around $25 or 6.5% increase at the same time this year as it was last year. So numbers and occupancy are steady, rates are being an ADR is being leveraged, and then revenue per reservation is also increasing. But that's really driven by, as we talked about at the top of the call, the promotions and the extended stays that tie into that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

And what do you think are maybe the the trends happening with consumer preferences across the industry?

Amenities, Cleanliness, Guest Expectations

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah, so I think I think amenities are important. I do think that you know you need to understand your customer base. In glamping, we're looking for a different experience. We're looking for the JW Marriott out in the wild. And I think those amenities that offer that full experience and that full four or five-star experience is much, very much needed. I think as families are thinking about their location, their vacations, are they towing a boat? Are they, do they, do they like fishing? Those types of things I have a different put. So whether you're taking towing a trailer or you're driving a A-class motor home, that experience is going to change, or if you're just going to go camping. Uh, my son, 21, he goes camping a lot, and it's more of a pitcher tent where we can go fish and do those things. Amenities are that important to that cohort. But anyone in an RV or pulling, even though they have some of those amenities on board, they're looking for the bathroom, the showers, they're looking for, you know, can they get supplies? Are they close by? Things like that are very important. And then I think cleanliness. I think everyone's looking for cleanliness. Is trash picked up regularly? Good park operators are you know emptying those trash bins, you know, on a regular basis or keeping it away. I think all those things start to add up. And then I think what's in proximity. Are they doing mountain biking? Are they doing trail riding? Are they fishing again? Those types of outdoor activities. I see a lot of that. And even as you think about the hunting season, I Live in Texas, people don't need to stay, they can stay in a campground and then do walk-ins to do their hunting. What proximity are you to some of those types of opportunities that you can service guests that way as well? Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

The when we were at Sage doing a bunch of feasibilities, or one of the things I've noticed in the last few years is, like you mentioned, it totally depends on your market, your location, and ultimately your customer. Why are they coming to the property? Are they on a family vacation? Are they going hunting? Are they just passing through on a road trip? And that will will dictate it. But one of the things that we found that was kind of a safe bet was identify the low-cost, high-impact amenities, you know, things that you can add to your website, things that you can add to your PMS, you know, whether that be a barrel sauna for five to ten grand, a dog wash station for a couple grand, a a dog park for five to ten grand, and these things that you can add in that will will, you know, you'll check the box for certain people, but they're not going to totally bust the bank. One of the things we did see a lot of RV park properties getting trouble in in like the 22, 23 boom was, you know, overbuilding tons of amenities, you know, parks costing 10 to 25 million. And there's just like such a massive debt payment that came along with that, they got a little bit into trouble. But maybe focusing on some of those high impact amenities. I guess do you have anything to add to that or any any differing thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah, I think look, the you think about the high impact amenities, yeah. You can still do kayaks, you can do bikes, you can do golf carts, but then there comes a maintenance cost to your point with that. And then there's a storage piece with that as well. And then based on your campground and and its proximity to whatever the attractions are that's bringing them in, if it's off I-35 or something like that, maybe it's a different experience where it's just more of a transient coming in, two-night stay, recouping, getting back on the road. But when you're more of a destination, I think maintaining golf carts, if you just think about the service plans and all those things that go into those types of things, it can be a real big drain on your top line revenue or your bottom line revenue, to be honest, because what you have to do to maintain all that is a lot. And then you've got to think of your own storage capacity and upkeep of those products or those amenities is a lot. I do think you're right on the firewood, things like that, all that stuff that's relative to my stay, toasting marshmallows, things like that, all that can be added into a website, booking engine, and I think that's easy to maintain. But some of those more commercialized luxury amenities are hot.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I got a very specific and kind of random

Wi‑Fi As A Deal Breaker

SPEAKER_02 24:42

question for you. I I don't expect you to have an answer, but have you noticed or paid attention to historically speaking, RV parks, like having cable TV hookups as an offer was a really big and hot thing. Now with all the streaming services and Wi-Fi, I guess my question is have you noticed a trend on the importance of Wi-Fi and any like that as a staple service? And I guess have you have you seen or noticed anything on that?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

I think today, again, it depends on segment, depends on location, right? But I do think that Wi-Fi has become very critical. And there's a couple of different reasons for that as well. Meter readings, automation around those types of things for the operators, they need to have good Wi-Fi. And I think guest today traveling with families, unfortunately, we're in the tablet handheld generation. Uh, we've been in that for a while. There's probably not going to be a time where they're not going to want to check their sports results, fantasy football, fantasy phase baseball, whatever it may be, World Cup soccer. When you think about those types of things, that those events that are happening, people still want to be connected to that, sit around the RV or the campsite and enjoy that under the stars. It's critical. Wi-Fi is a critical component to any successful campground that is tailoring to a guest clientele that's either pulling or driving their league.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Yeah. Yeah. And like you mentioned, it might not be as important if it's, you know, more of a campground in the woods. It's super remote, you know, and they're it's it's purely an outdoor experience. But if it's a property that's more on the way or transient, or people are probably going to be working or, you know, a longer vacation, you know, having that does become very critical. And it's probably a quick yes or no for many, many guests. If the proper if they're on a if they need to work while they're on their, you know, 14-day road trip and they can't, there's no Wi-Fi at the property, that might just be an immediate no.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

So Yeah, Wi-Fi is critical. I think, I think we're in the age of being connected. You know, I think about your your phone, like you don't need you used to have to call your bank to let them know that you were traveling. They don't need to know that anymore because the app on your phone tells them you're traveling. So you don't get your cards still work and all those types of things, and fraud alerts are there. So being connected and travel is is critical, I think. But to your point, hunting trip, fishing trip, maybe want to get away, turn off everything, those types of campgrounds or environments are gonna not necessarily need it. And then hopefully they've they know how to get back to why cellular coverage at some point. But if you want to disconnect, there's places to do that. But I think for the main mainstream operators that are taking in Vs, either pulled or driven, Wi-Fi is critical.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

What's

The Metrics That Really Matter

SPEAKER_02 27:32

what metrics should operators really be paying close attention to, you know, as they're running their business is like just critical to success?

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, I think I think we talked about this at the top. I think revenue per available site, I think that's the one. I think it's a critical indicator for operators. I think when you think about how they measure it, and I think I touched on this at the top, is that just plugging in a dollar amount to see if you can increase yield doesn't necessarily drive the the desired outcome. You might get it right, you may not get it right. So I think utilizing column configuration with inside your reporting and then looking at specific dates, clients, where they came from, just understanding the mix of your guests will help you with creating a better yield on that front. I think occupancy, you know, is another driver by that column. We encourage users to enable the relevant columns in our reporting that just gives them that additional double clicking of information. And if you can get those yield balances right on those reservations per site, and then you can optimize it based on the weekends or which most most operators get that right, but could they charge a little bit more on a Wednesday? You know, is there is there things happening around their location that helps them create their higher yield festivals, things like that, within 25-50 miles? It doesn't need to be in your town. People will go from town to town. So I think driving into that area and just taking a different cut of that would help. AI is another way you can leverage that. I think most people today pulling their data and allowing a chat GPT or a Claude, just do the quick first pass of that might show you some trends and then allow you to go set up those reportings or that that analytics just a little bit more deeper. So I think those things like that are very are critical, and that's what we see. And then I think the last piece is it's just understanding your promotions, your extended stays. We we I cannot iterate that enough because that data and cutting that and understanding where it's working and where it's not, guest type, you know, were they were they transient, were they looking to stay a week or two weeks, was there was there something going on around the destination of your park? All that is critical as well. And I think the data in there is where the yield is. And I think if you optimize that, I think it helps them with their full PL and total revenue.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, and

Using AI To Find Pricing Clues

SPEAKER_02 30:06

to expand on that, you know, you mentioned utilizing AI. And the the way one way to do that is you can export the entirety of your booking data. So it will, you know, export a CSV or an XXL file of all of your booking information by name, site type, check-in, check out, rate, and then you just upload that entire exported CSV file into Claude or GBT, and it will process that and tell you trends. And you could just say, hey, give me some insights. What should we be changing operationally? Is there anything that looks off here? And how's our pricing? You know, things like that. And it will give you really usable information. Say, hey, your weekends have been 100% booked, you know, a month in advance. You need to raise your weekend prices, or you know, maybe you cut the prices on your weekdays, or you've got a holiday coming up, you should raise the prices, or whatever it may be. That's that's the actual steps for doing that piece.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

And and that's that's kind of that's sort of created another point that when you think about generative AI, that that is you taking in action on information. And I think when I think about Storball and I think about New Book and just where we are as an organization, we've we've been building an agentic AI platform in the background. And we're very, we're very big on autonomy and how it starts to learn and create that. And I think as you as you sort of navigate the the generative AI world of using Chat GPT, and I know you can plug it in the different different ways into your business, but I think the future will start to tie us towards, you know, it's just doing it for you. And I think as we launch our AI solutions and market as we think through in 27 and beyond, that's how we think about the business. We've done the generative piece, and now we've really moved to the agentic AI world, which is creates that autonomous and uh self-learning process that will show you the trends automatically in the future.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

So and one of the things that we didn't talk about at the beginning of this that might be helpful for people is, you know, property management software, your PMS, if you heard my ad reads about New Book, you know, it's the nucleus of your business and it's at the center of your tech stack and all your operations, everything from it publicly facing to the customers all the way to coordinating cleaners and a myriad of other capabilities. You know, your PMS is most likely going to be your most expensive software that you have in your business. They're not cheap and they have a lot of capabilities. So the more accurate information and the more involved in the way you're using it and using it in a detailed fashion, that gives you a lot more data that you can then export and run through AI to do health checks. You know, it might tell you some really interesting insights about your cleaners. You know, if they're being tagged and it's showing the hours that they're working and how many cleans they're doing, it might tell you, hey, you know, X cleaner is your top performer. They're they're doing 40% more cleans in a given time compared to B cleaner, who maybe is is falling behind. Like keep an eye on that or something. And so how about dynamic

Dynamic Pricing And Channel Strategy

SPEAKER_02 33:21

pricing? I know that's a really important, powerful tool. Could you maybe talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yeah, so dynamic pricing is just optimizing, you know, the the opportunity that's that's that's in inside of your vacancies, right? And I think, you know, it it's it's strange that we still talk about dynamic pricing. It's been around a long time. And it's actually quite surprising to me how many people do not use it, where it takes your bookings and then says, hey, we're selling out, we're automatically going to raise price, or we can lower price to try and create the occupancy that we need. But it surprises me today, and every time I go to OHI, that this is a topic at OHI, and we talk about dynamic pricing and how to leverage it to create occupancy. It does drive ADR as well. It's it's pricing you in the market automatically, it's allowing you to capture a higher yield or lower yield when deployed, but it shocks me how many times I go out to trade shows or large operator events and they seem like dynamic pricing is a whole new concept. It's been around a long time. And I tell you where it's used very, very well is in the OTAs. So what New Book presents to the market, and this is where I think dynamic pricing is critical, is how you service your eyeballs that are looking for your property. And I think you've got to have all the hooks in the line, all hooks in the water, sorry, that allow you to capture the eyeballs of the consumer or the guest that wants to come stay. And OTAs are the master of dynamic pricing, and you can set that up inside your as long as you can connect out to you know, booking.com, Expedia, etc., you can leverage that. Another great place to use dynamic pricing also is hip camp. Another for glamping and RV campgrounds, you know, that's a very niche OTA, but just having that all set up in your PMS, connecting out to your OTAs, you're just putting more lines in the water that give you the opportunity to create those bookings. And we do know that what we see, Connor, is when we go out and consult and remind them to turn these things on, yes, there's a slightly higher charge, but uh but I think a $3 per booking to get an OTA booking that allows you to capture that guest, bring it into your own marketing system as well, is critical on the future of where the industry needs to go. And the reason why you can validate that is that Bonvoy has already started to get into their rewards after reaching out to guests and offering you know outdoor stays as well. So the market's moving that way. So dynamic pricing ties into not only helping you price efficiently your inventory and optimizing the revenue high or low for your occupancy, but it also pushes out directly into the OTAs.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

What are the

OTAs To Prioritise For Bookings

SPEAKER_02 36:18

biggest OTAs that people should be making sure they're on in the kind of the RV campground space versus the glamping, you know, cabin unique stay space, logging side of things?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, so I I obviously hip camp, when you think about the niche OTA, is the number one OTA. If you're not on hip camp, I think you're making a big mistake. If you're in glamping in RV. So I would certainly connect with them. We have a channel manager that allows you to connect out to Xpedia, Booking.com, Hip Camp. So we sort of manage that through PMS today. But if you're not on Booking.com or Expedia, and I think back to the World Cup, right? How many millions of people came to spend time in the United States for that event? How are you going to capture those customers? They're not going to find you on a closed marketplace here locally in the US. They're international travelers. If you're not in an OTA world, you don't even get a shot at them. Most international travelers do not just come in and stay in large metros. They will get a Vs, they will drive to locations, they will drive the Grand Canyon, for an example. They will go do these things, and you won't capture them because what they're trained to do internationally is beyond an OTA. But let's just say that was just 5% incremental or 10% incremental occupancy that you gain from that over an annual basis, and then multiply that by your daily rate. I think you'd pay the $3 to go get that 5 or 10%. So I think those are the big ones. And I think that's why would you not do it when you're really only being charged if they book to come stay with you? And I think I think that's another big opportunity that's missed across both glamping and RV camping.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Definitely. Yeah. And we, I know for our RV park, we're on hip camp and spot tonight. There's probably a couple other ones we should be on. Like I think the dirt, maybe campendian.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Dirt's a good one too, for sure. 31% of campers that are going in from Gen Z, so 31% of new campers are Gen Z and they're going glamping, which is interesting, I found.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah, and the two industries behave completely differently from an RV perspective. And I have the advantage of seeing both an RV only property and a glamping only property. And like for Outposts, which is 12 Airstreams, we saw 80% of our bookings through Expedia, Booking.com, Airbnb, and then Hip Camp. And then we look at Rice Ranch, which is an RV park, and you know, it's probably, you know, 5% or maybe even less. And maybe I haven't kept super close eye on it because we've been in off season for a while now. But I'll be curious to see how we do this year when it's fully set up and we have a little bit more data. But just on the RV side, it's a lot less prevalent. I guess I don't know. Do you have any? Have you looked into that at all? It's just like how it's different between those two verticals.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

I I think as though as I mentioned, the stat the other 31% that are driving out that are Gen Z is an interesting stat. I think when we look at the mix, and we work with some large operators, that the the demographics are it's like 60% or somewhere in that range, are 40s or above with families traveling to RV campgrounds. I'm not quite sure, I think for me myself, I guess I'm in that generation, 40 and above. For my wife and I, we we love clamping, but we love the luxuries that come with it. But I also think that younger people, that 31% that we talked about, I think those are professional people that have created strong careers in metro metropolitan markets, and they're looking to get out of the metros and go see and spend time in a luxury environment or a fully serviced environment that matches up the glamping really well.

Sponsor: Sage Outdoor Advisory

Shari Heilala (Sponsor) 40:13

Hello, listeners. This is Sherry Halala, founder of Sage Outdoor Advisory. If you're launching an outdoor hospitality project like Glamping, we can help. We offer feasibility studies and appraisals. What that means is we look at your specific market and proposed business offering and complete an in-depth analysis to make sure that your planned business will be profitable. Getting a second opinion on your proposal and forecasted financials is critical to understand before you spend years of your time and hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is particularly important if you are looking to raise money for your project from a bank of private investors. They are going to want to see this type of deep dive analysis from an independent third-party specialist in the industry. We at Sage have completed well over 250 feasibility studies and appraisals in outdoor hospitality in North America in the last four years so we understand what it takes to bring a project from concept to reality. If this sounds like it could be helpful to you, you can go to our website, SageOutdoorAdvisory.com, and schedule a call with our team. While you're there, check out our proprietary glamping database map too. Thanks. Now back to the show.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah.

Automations That Save Staff Time

SPEAKER_02 41:16

And is there anything else from like a PMS perspective operationally that you know people could like is there any automations or efficiencies that could save people on the expense side of things? You know, whether replacing a staff member or doing something to automate and make things more efficient, that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yeah, I think the biggest challenge here in the US is you have a lot of seasonal workers. I think that and this sort of goes back to the AI again as well. I think if you're going to add technology or innovation or expansion into your current PMS, if it doesn't take care of the process from A to Z, then it's not truly creating efficiency. If it's taking the guests and parking them somewhere, and then you still got to come back to it, it's buying you time, but it's not creating an experience. So I think what we have created is an LMS because we understand that there's a lot of seasonality in operators. So we provide an access to an LMS, allows them to continue automated trainings, and I think education of your staff based on that seasonality piece is critical. AI will eventually help alleviate maybe some overhead or bottom PL cost structure for employees through efficiency. But where does it plug in? Is it the reservations? Is it the check-ins? Is it helping on the cleaning side? It's just areas like that you'd have to evaluate. But I truly don't believe today, in our vertical or our industry, there's a total solution in market that eliminates a human being inside of an AI environment through efficiency. I think it does pieces of it. And I think what we focus on is we don't want to bring something to market unless it does everything from A to Z or in totality.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Yeah. Yeah, that is interesting. And this is probably outside of the PMS world, but maybe what I see right now from a cost perspective, where AI can really cut costs is one, if you want to. So you're only paying for what's used. And or, you know, if there's website website chatbots that use FAQs and can learn and potentially help with the booking. I haven't really seen I don't know if there's a solution right now where an AI chat bot bot can complete a booking online, but it can help answer. Questions like, is there Wi-Fi or how far are we from the bathroom or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Yeah, I think I think that's all true. I think though, to your point, it doesn't do it in totality. So at some point, there's going to be a call or a message that needs to be answered. And where the challenge is with that is it starts a dilute process or experience. And I think that's that's what's critical. Because as soon as it moves out of that environment, and then they're hitting you where you're doing all your check-ins for the day, what is the follow-up? What's the callback? And then have they moved on? There's only in my experience in my career, having worked in marketplaces, you only have so much time to capture that guest to come stay at your location or buy from your local your business. And if you move them away and that experience dilutes in any way, shape, or form, they'll they will move on. Patience is not a human trait,

Chatbots: Helpful Or Harmful?

SPEAKER_01 44:54

especially when traveling. So you've got to factor that in. So if you do have a chatbot that's engaging online, what is the what is the backup to that? And then what is the response rate or acceptance rate to that inquiry once it moves out of that environment? Those are things I would look at for sure.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Yeah, and I haven't dove into it enough to really understand it. But there's obviously a fierce debate between a guest calls in and they speak with a human versus a guest calls in and they speak with a chatbot, and maybe that doesn't go anywhere. So you know, I I would need to look more into the capability of the technology, but I would think like, I don't know, you you wouldn't you'd want to be really careful with your inbound sales, you know, and potentially losing those conversions. So you'd want to handle that delicately.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Yeah, I was on a site the other day, I was inspecting a site, and they they were presenting to me that they're AI-led, and I went through their chatbot and I had questions, and it didn't, it it has pre prefabricated answers to get you through. I still had to make the booking, I had to go through and do all that myself. It wouldn't take me through the entire booking, but I had questions, and then I was going to have to call. So I deliberately was calling at 10 a.m. And I would tell you, I don't know how many times this is another area that that's where the phone services are helpful, but again, does it enhance the experience or does it dilute the experience? And that's what I would ask myself as an operator. Anything I'm plugging in, is it enhancing it or diluting it? And if it's diluting it, then I think you're creating missed opportunities rather than capturing opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Definitely. Is there any other areas that you think AI could play a big role, you know, whether in New Book or otherwise, for operators?

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Yes.

Next Wave: AI Agents And BI

SPEAKER_01 46:43

So we use a roadmap methodology of now, next, later. So I think what you're gonna see next is is what the what AI will bring to that. As I mentioned, we don't like to push out half-baked AI where it just says we've checked the box. We don't want to do that. So I think that the booking agent that we're talking about now will be something you'll see come to market. Hopefully, right around Ohio. It'll work for glamping, it'll work for RV campgrounds, it'll work for marinas as well, where it takes you through the full transaction and can add the extras and all the enhancements you want to put on a booking. It also creates the ability for if they get to a checkout phase and then they don't check out, that creates consumer or guest capture, allows you to remarket. So it's it's a dual tool. So that's one. Then I think look, reporting is the big one. I think the industry, there's a lot of data out there, and I think operators are curious to know how they can leverage their own data, but more importantly, how do they leverage industry data? And this is where I think the opportunity sits. We do have in development a fully AI BI product, which will allow people to customize, cut, and slice data in a more intelligent way, and we hopefully will see that later in the year. But you've also got to look at data holistically. So I've talked a little bit about a closed marketplace, it's only a lens into a snapshot. And I think AI BI will be the future of showing you a market totality of what's happening from OTAs, marketplaces, your own guest data. And I think putting that together will help you build either the right amenities, the right experiences, but certainly help you with bottom line revenue. Now, everything has a cost to it, right? And I think we talked about this, you mentioned this, that PMSs are expensive. But when you go back and look at what you're trying to achieve, if you go down the path of a minimal viable product just to have the tool set to be online, it's probably going to cost you more of what you missed rather than what you can capture. If you lean in and make an investment into the right software, we do it every day with our phones. Our phones cost more than some PMSs, just putting it out there. But it keeps us connected to family, lifestyle, creates an ecosystem. So I think you need to inspect your software to make sure, based on where your vision is for your business and its growth, are all the tools in it or are they going to be delivered with it at some stage? And that would be the first thing I would vet.

Marketing That Fills Low Season

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Is there we talked about this a little bit, but I just want to see if there's anything else in terms of revenue per site. Is there anything else that operators should really be focused on for adding more revenue per booking and being able to utilize their PMS to do that effectively? I guess you mentioned at the beginning, like some clients are just killing it with non-overnight, non-lodging, non-RV site revenue. How are they actually employing those features or utilizing those features to have that success rather than just, you know, you list it, it's there, but like actually executing to get those conversions. Just curious if you have any insights or advice there.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Yeah, I think so. Conversion is about understanding the data and what's transpiring across your park. I think there's also other other areas that you can go in and some of the local conventions or trade shows that we go to, there's group meetings where you can go in and sort of do that shear and care about what's working for you. In our system, it's really simple. We have a very comprehensive back end, as you know, that allows you to go across and analyze your ADR, your length of stay, all those good pieces that go into it, and then to create a rate optimization. I think that's one thing. I think the other thing is that Wi-Fi is a good one. And then I think you know, leveraging the features that you have, can you monetize some of those enhanced pieces that you're offering at the campground? And can you create that analysis inside of your PMS? Can you export it, download it, can you study the data? Can you slice and cut it? But I don't think today, even as comprehensive as we are, I still think there's a long way to go to get those insights measured the right way. If I was thinking about an operator up creating opportunity with their PMS, I met with a couple of campground owners recently, and how are you marketing your business? What is that marketing strategy? Paying an agency more than what you're paying for your PMS. Is there a more efficient way for you to go create your own website plan with digital marketing services that are plugged in that are tailored to what exactly you want to represent to the market? And I think there's some efficiencies in that that can have high yield for you, and that would be taking control of your marketing strategy. The other underlying piece with your tool set is how do you capture and and market to what I would call enthusiast groups or closed groups, schools, local schools, where are they camping? How are they camping? Closed groups. I know there's a group in Texas that went out and marketed to a closed group of a motorcycle club. They actually book out in their their one week a year, which is their lowest occupancy month, which they've analyzed. They know it's week 32 or 33 of the year. They know that they they have very low occupancy. They now have that park sold out for that weekend because they came and pulled in from that data and marketed to a motorcycle club, they'll come in and book out the entire park for that whole four or five days over a long weekend. And that's found money. So I think using data and then understanding what the opportunity is and market to market to whom or how is another great way of leveraging software and then creating a strategy of going capture new guests.

Loyalty Without A Fancy Programme

SPEAKER_02 52:48

And is there anything is there anything in terms of guest loyalty or retention, you know, getting your customers to come back year or year? Any any insights on like what's been successful or any tools for doing that?

SPEAKER_01 53:04

There's a couple of tools out there. We have a we have a membership tool that you can leverage inside of New Book that you can actually market and remarket and create loyalty through that. There's a couple of other ones out there that have point systems. However, I think stay the extra night, take 15% off your next booking. So if you stay the extra night, you do a promo, do it that way, and then create an offering on the exit is a great way to create loyalty. And then you you you create that loyalty incentive for six months. Because you don't want to come back a year later, you want them to come back because they come back twice, you've created that. So I think leveraging tools like that are good, but there's not to me a fully robustable solution in market today. I think we do a good job of it, and we have big plans for creating membership and loyalty that I think would overlay very similar to what you see in the hotel chains in the future. But your marketing engine can create some of those loyalty initiatives on the check-in or the checkout, and then create a strong marketing. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Is is there anything else like from the data side, any other interesting insights, whether it's ADR or booking lead times or or certain amenities that seem to have a high correlation with performance?

Upsells From Firewood To RV Help

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Just curious, just like from a broad perspective.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

So I think maintenance, is there maintenance available for RVs? That's a big one. Can you get a technician to service you at a location? Is a big one. So offering services like that, we've seen operators do that. There's other operators that also say, hey, they they work with the local dealerships and say, hey, bring it, we'll we'll set up an experience for you at our park, we'll help you with the hookup and make sure everything works before you go on that road trip. So there's things like that that are being leveraged in market. From a data standpoint, I just think that you know, we're just in this sort of a little bit of a quandary. And I think if you're not seeing a lift in on average of what I mentioned, of the 30% plus range of promotions, I think that's that's the key right now. ADR, it's gonna have its peaks and values based on seasonality. And I think the one thing is gas prices. That's another thing that's out there right now. It depends on, I don't know where the movement is by region, but the average um gallon of gas is $4 right now across the US. So that's gonna have a big impact as well. So monitoring that and then thinking about which guests are within 50 miles, because anyone has to fill twice to do a trip is gonna certainly probably second guess that trip.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

What are the upsells that you're seeing are most popular? Whether so you mentioned maintenance. Is that that's having a technician available, or that's more having parts that people can do it themselves, or both?

SPEAKER_01 56:02

It's both. The more sophisticated operators have tapped into a service that on weekends, you know, I won't say it's 24-7, but having the confidence that we have somebody in the market that can service you if you need have needs is critical. So parts is one, it'll obviously depend on age of vehicle and obviously brand, but able to get it and service it. So I think more generic mechanics or servicing is available, and I think then just having that available. So I think if you're on a road trip, just getting a flat tire in your car is a pain, is a challenge, right? So think about that if you're in an RV. And I think we've seen, we've probably seen, I think this year, I'd have to check the stats, but it's been at least a 15% increase of operators trying to showcase that service within a radius of their park, and they've gone out proactively engaged with these services to have them available for that. Now, I don't know what the breakdown rate is. I'd have to go back and probably talk to some of these operators, but there wouldn't be an offer for it if it wasn't happening on a more regular basis.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

Awesome. Is there anything else like firewood, s'mores kits, telescopes, propane, golf carts, anything else that you've seen like really be a standout?

SPEAKER_01 57:20

I think firewood's a big one. I think anything that can entertain the kids, s'mores games, like there could be cornhole. You'd be surprised how many people don't bring cornhole with them.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Oh, that's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

I never even thought about renting cornhole. Yeah, so renting cornhole. The other thing is setting up, you know, like nets, like volleyball is another one. You can set up a volleyball court anywhere. You can actually have a couple of volleyball nets, you can turn it into badminton if you wanted to. Just to keep the kids busy. Gives them something to do. Families can do that. You can get six or seven people in the court. You just gotta make sure you've got the space for that.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

It doesn't have to be sand either. Everyone wants to play beach volleyball, but you can't play volleyball in the grass.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And maybe kind of zooming

Product Roadmap And Support Benchmarks

SPEAKER_02 58:09

out. Well, one, is there anything else that you'd like to talk about that you think I missed before we kind of talk about what's next for New Book and looking towards the future?

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Yeah, I think for the future for us is you'll see AI innovation, booking agents, reporting components of it. I think UX will be a big thing that you'll see improve with New Book over the next 12 to 18 months. We know we have a very strong PMS, but sometimes navigation of that can be overwhelming, especially for seasonal workers. So simplifying that, I think you'll start to see that. We talked about this rewards, membership, loyalty programs. We have a very good roadmap on that. I think those would be the key things from our standpoint, from a technology, but I but the the the strength that we have, as you know, Connor, is our people. And I think that when I went back and looked at some of our stats, which I may have to take a break here, we may have to record this piece to get this piece up for you. But yeah, so we our average answer time for guests calling in for support was 51 seconds to have a real team member on the phone with them. We processed over 1,269 hours of training, additional training, above and beyond what they normally get from a PMS standpoint. And we processed over 4,500 calls so far this year. So I'm not worried about the calls, they could be 10,000. I think what's happening is because we're doing such a great job of our engagement from a CS support training standpoint, I think our support calls are going down. So I think leveraging those resources that we offer, I think we have best in the industry. So, and whether you're a glamping operator or an RV operator, you should leverage those key insights and then ask them for the insights. We have Glean operating it inside of New Book today. So some of the things doesn't we you miss emails, you miss updates on the product. Ask your CS or ask your support agent about things that may have been open in support queries. If you miss the update sent to you, they can query it for you in seconds because we're leveraging AI behind the scenes. Yeah. Awesome.

Weathering The Market Slowdown

SPEAKER_02 1:00:23

And then if if you're you know putting yourselves in the shoes of the operator and looking at where the industry is headed and where consumer preferences are headed, what what can operators do to position themselves for success? Or like what are what are the big things they should definitely be focusing on?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

So I think if you're out there today and you're struggling in a couple of areas, which we talked about around occupancy, how do you go get that 10% more occupancy? Who can you go talk to? And how can you evaluate your business? I will be very transparent on this piece is that there's a little bit of contraction going on that that we hit the peak through COVID. We're sort of hit this little bit of a downslide. I think we're in an S curve. And the S curve means we had this massive growth in RV. We've sort of hit the middle part where we're hitting the S. I think it will start to go back up. Can you weather the storm? So, what is your, as you mentioned, what is your capitalization? What is your loan structure on your part? What are the dollars you need to go make that? There's some really strong advisors or even management companies. I'm not saying have them go manage it, but you should have them probably go do an inspection to understand is it areas that you could improve on that they would showcase to you that you feel that you could also go back and create better hygiene around how you're handling your bookings, how you're handling your pricing, you know, what are some of the best practices out there in understanding market rate to make you competitive for that occupancy? And I think there's a couple of ways you can go do that without having to fully employ those services, but just get some sound bites. If you're really in a struggling area, and I've heard this a lot where we can't get the bookings, we can't get the occupancy, you're you're not in a position to restructure your campground just based on where interest rates are today. Maybe a management company avenue is another good way for you to weather the storm, get some best practices in place, and then additionally maybe take take those learnings and then roll it back into your business as as the economy sort of picks back up again.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

Yeah, I completely agree. And and touching on what you're saying about marketing and advertising, it certainly seems like it's changed. You know, how people find an RV park or a hotel or a glamping site and where they're going to stay, how much that's changed in the last 10 years is dramatic. And marketing and advertising is such a big piece. And New Book does offer some really affordable solutions for website, SEO, paid social media, Google paid ads that that are pretty great. You know, whether you use New Book or otherwise, it's probably one of the biggest things you can do for your business. And there's a lot of options and it's can be a little bit of an a little bit intimidating, but it it's it's critical and can really move the needle.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

If you on that note, Connor, if you're using a marketing agency, not picking on marketing agencies, but we do this in our own business today. You need to go back and look at your keyword optimizations, you go back and look at your content, you've got to go back and inspect what you would expect to be going into market. And if you don't have the time to do that, a marketing agency is great, but you should be expecting them very hard because they do deliver a lot of information to you that sounds great, but doesn't show the yield on the other side. And I think you should question those things. If you have the time, owning your brand, leveraging affordable options that create a more organic approach to your business. I think those prudent to do, and then I would do it's like shopping for car insurance or RV insurance. If you're not doing it annually, you should be doing the same thing on your marketing as well. And make sure that you have, if you are using an agency, that you understand Google Analytics and make them walk you through on how they're optimizing it for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Yep, I completely agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Yep, amazing, Simon.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Any any last things you want to add?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

No, I think well, I'm sure there is. I think it's an incredible industry. You know, my son was a Boy Scout, so we've been camping and you know, doing these types of things, and I grew up next to a holiday park or a caravan park in New Zealand. It's an amazing and very resilient industry. I think we don't want to make them. I think there's a resort play here, and then there's an affordability play. And I think you've got to decide which camp you're in. I don't think you can do both. And I

Final Takeaways And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

think where cost of living is today, I think affordability with the right amenities, clean bathrooms, maybe showers, things like that will help you and then truly understand the activities that are available around you. And then the last thing I think is critical, if you are not on the web looking for closed forums of enthusiasts, could be bike racing, uh, cross-country racing, whatever it is, you can go join those those groups, talk to the moderators of those, and try and create a direct marketing channel rather than just a broad online presence. I think those things that we have seen operators do the last 12 to 18 months that have been critical to helping them grow their businesses.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Yeah, I love it. Simon, thank you so much. All sites, all types of wisdom. Definitely recommend any of the listeners, you know, if you're shopping for a PMS or if you have one that you're not happy with, you know, definitely check out the storable new book. And yeah, thanks so much for coming on. Appreciate it. Thanks, Carol.