From Boo Boo to VP at Camp Jellystone — Lisa Courtney on the Real Work of Outdoor Hospitality Leadership

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Speaker 0:05

Welcome to the Outdoor Hospitality Podcast. I am your host today, Shari Heilala. As promised, we have been expanding the podcast to include campgrounds and RV resorts. And today we are going to meet a vibrant star in the industry who is part of the leadership team of one of the most iconic brands in the campground industry. We have Lisa Courtney, VP of Operations and Sales at Camp Jellystone. Welcome, Lisa. Hi, how's it going? It's going great. We tried to do the podcast a different day and had some Wi-Fi troubles. We were both down at the Gulf Coast Beach area. So take two for us. So glad to have you. And just as a side note, Lisa and I met at an industry event that Live Oak Bank puts on over in North Carolina and connected there and had a lot of fun and just really learned a lot together in the industry. So now we move on to the podcast.

From Classified Ad To General Manager

Speaker 1:11

So Lisa, tell us a little bit about your background, your story, and what led you to what you're doing today.

Speaker 1 1:18

Yeah. Well, one, I wish we were still at the beach, just so you know. You know, but we'll we'll we'll do it. We'll do it from here. But yeah, my gosh, my story. Man, I I really kind of just fell into this, you know. I I was looking for a job, you know, at the time where there's still like, you know, you're looking through the newspapers, you know, you're looking through the classified ads, you know, you're flipping through, and honestly saw an ad for a campground, had no idea, no idea. I know camping. We we backpack, my family backpacks, we go to the the national parks, you know, those things. So yeah, showed up to the Nashville Yogi Bear Jelly Stone Park, because I'm I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, and I looked around and I was like, I have no idea what this type of camping is. I don't know about massive RVs or anything like that. And I mean, we're talking 2008, so I'm like, I've been tent for way too long, it seems like, you know. So yeah, I just kind of applied, got into it, and my first job was to be a character and be a part of the rec programming. And that was what 2008. I said which character?

Speaker 2:40

Or what did you do multiple?

Speaker 1 2:42

Oh, so in the brand, there are height restrictions of what what the characters can be. I was boo-boo first, and then when we got Cindy Bear, I then was also Boo Boo and Cindy Bear. So Boo Boo's my favorite. I I love I still to this day will get in it and mess around and and have a good time. You know, it it helps to show franchisees that even though you're on the franchise or side, I'm still willing to to get in and have a good time, and it shows as well, I think. I mean, I I still love it, but yeah, just got into it, had a good time.

Speaker 3:19

Now I really need to see you in a character suit because I could have messed your life. Okay, so beyond the character. Go on.

Speaker 1 3:26

Yeah, well, I will always put on a show for anyone who wants to see it. So there is that. Yeah, so just kind of worked my way up. We had a management change, and you know, I'm still pretty green, pretty young, you know, in my 20s, early 20s at the time, and really not much management skill. I don't have that that much or many of the management skills that I have today, but I essentially kind of had a mentor there that took me under her wing and helped me figure out how to put myself out there a little bit better. You know, I I was told like you can do it, you're just not ready yet. And I'm like, oh okay, great, thank you. But I I don't know, I went back to the drawing board and I was just like, I know I can do this, and so I just wrote a proposal to them and said, Give me a trial, give me a shot. And yeah, and essentially I went from being the character in the rec programming or the rec department to office manager to well, recreation director, then office manager, and then GM in about three-ish years, three and a half years, four years maybe. Wow, and then that's impressive. Yeah, still not a lot of experience, you know. Growing up, I think we were we were taught as kids, you go to college, you get your degree, you do those things, and you get a good job, you you learn those skills. And at the time, I did not have a college degree. I was trying to figure out where I wanted to be in life and stuff, and this just kind of happened, and it happened in a way that I learned a lot of life lessons. I think lessons that you don't get taught at college or in college. You have to learn how to manage people very quickly, you have to learn how to manage your own self, I feel like, in these situations within this industry and within customer service and you know, operational excellence and all those things. So I moved up pretty quickly. I enjoyed every moment of it. I learned a lot. I also cried a lot. I'll be real with you. I cried a lot behind the propane station, quite a bit.

Speaker 6:11

I I say, I always say you're not pushing yourself hard enough unless you at least at some point cry.

Speaker 1 6:19

Yeah. I I mean you you definitely have a breakdown at some point. And if you haven't, please come talk to me because I would love to understand what you're doing differently. Exactly. But then and then that moment after about eight and a half years, you know, burnout really kicked in. We had a Christmas-like show, so not only was that was I working, I'm gonna call it 70 plus hours in a week, it's just it is what it is. You know, we're a year-round park. I say it is what it is, it's not healthy. Let's let me be clear about that. But with those operations that are that you're very limited on staffing, and even during that time, and you're the leader of the ship, and you're still learning how to manage people and manage your own boundaries, right? You you're starting to see like you start out at that high number, and then you you have to learn how to get down to like, okay, maybe 55 hours this week is good or or whatever. So, yeah, the burnout happened. We were open year-round. We also had a Christmas light show that we did in the winter time, which was amazing, but it wasn't like I had a break. So after a few years of that, I I said this industry isn't for me. I'm going back to school, I'm getting my degree, and I'm gonna open doors elsewhere that I could I don't know, excel in or find something different I might love. And then I ended up finishing up school. It was 20, I graduated college in 2019, and I had an option. I was working actually for a aquatics company at the time, and I realized very quickly I did not want to do that. You know, that was that was not that I I love I love the people that came with it, but I just like I I think aquatics is a whole different beast. And then I fortunately had a couple people from Leisure Systems at the time, it's which is Camp Jellystone still. I reached out, they reached out, and kind of like the the GM position or the the the management position at the park I was at, they saw something in me, and and I just said, let's try it, right? Let's let's try it. I I think I want to get back in the game, I think I miss it, I I think I'm good at this, let's try it. And essentially it went from great, we have a spot for you, we need you to manage a park while we're selling it. Then you can come over to the sales team, work on the sales side of the franchise in the franchise sales, and then it was operations, sales, director of operations, focus on sales, director of operations as a whole, and now in from 2019 to 2026, I've moved up to VP of operations for for the company. And I love it. I love the brand.

Speaker 9:33

Wow.

Speaker 1 9:34

Yeah, the br the brand, I love fun, I love people, and I think that this is what the brand depicts out there is the fun we have with all of our guests and our and our people and our teams and our franchisees. I mean, Yogi Bear's fun. I don't know how he can't be.

Speaker 9:53

Yeah. Well, after getting to know you a little bit, now I I understand the fit because you you bring that energy and it's it's gotta be, it is contagious. I think that your your energy is contagious. I I I want to talk more about camp jelly stone very soon, but I what you talked about resonated with me in terms of putting the hours in, trying to understand how to succeed, but also set boundaries. I mean, I've been I've I've had a 35 plus year career and I still struggle with it. And when you're when you're leading a team and you have high standards of what you want to deliver, I mean, I've always felt like, well, if no one else is available to do it, then it's on me. But it can come at a cost, right? If you're if you're not, if you're working 70 hours a week or just not taking care of yourself. So how has that changed for you over

Boundaries Burnout And Leading Under Pressure

Speaker 10:51

time? Do you look at it differently? Have you gotten better at that? Or is it still an ongoing struggle? I'm learning.

Speaker 1 10:58

I'm learning still. I I think that I am I know that for me, I feel that boundaries, the boundaries I need to create can be better for sure. Gosh, they can be better. But I I also know that like I just want to help people. And so sometimes I forget about mentally and emotionally, like saying to myself, like, it's time for a rest, you need to help you before others. But I I just am such I I'm into just seeing how I can affect people's lives in a positive way, to where if I can help them, one tiny little bit, right? It doesn't have to be massive. I feel like I've bettered their world somewhere or some other, like some somehow, I guess. And so I think that's probably where I create some boundary create some boundary issues, but I think on this side of it, it's a it's just a different experience than being boots on the ground all the time. I think boots on the ground, you know, you you have a lot of people you have to accommodate to. You have to accommodate yourself, you have to accommodate your guests, you have to accommodate your team, you have to accommodate the community. You know, there's just a lot of people that you are really trying to make sure that they're taken care of because your your business relies on that type of culture and experience and making sure that you're providing the best experience and memories for your guests and for your team.

Speaker 12:39

Yeah. Do you you know there's a lot of listeners out there that are either going to be managing their own outdoor hospitality business or are, or are dealing with staffing and just managing the stress of you know, things going wrong and how to handle that. But do you have any advice for people out there that are new to dealing with all that, you know, or a or a story that that might might help them think about things in the right way?

Speaker 1 13:07

Yeah, I think the biggest thing I tell folks is that it's okay to make mistakes. I think people get too hard on themselves when when a mistake happens and then they just beat themselves down. Like a lot of this sometimes is trial and error. There are there are a lot of things out there that people have done and can give advice on and whatnot, but your property and your your team and your area is still going to be very different than what others are dealing with. So trial and error is okay. Now, what's not okay is if trial and error and then you do not fix the problems after they come about or the challenges. I always am about culture. I'm a big culture person. I think that if you're able to create what you want your culture to be within your own self, within your own self, right? You understand as a leader what you value and what you want to project out, and how you want what you want your team to value and understand what they value as well. You can create a really cool culture that will benefit everyone. And then I believe that culture you've created seeps, starts seeping out of your team into the guests. So it's gonna, it doesn't happen overnight, you know. Sherry, you you probably know that just as well as a lot of us. It does not happen overnight, but you have to try different things.

Sponsor Message Sage Outdoor Advisory

Speaker 14:42

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Culture That Guests Can Feel

Speaker 15:43

I like that point of view. And just even I just got back from some travels, from site visits. And usually when I'm traveling, I try to stay at other properties, even if I'm not consulting with them or appraising them. And I was at two different glamping, actually, the one was glamping in RV, but two different well-known properties. And the difference between the teams and the hospitality was so dark. It just was like, I couldn't believe the people at the first one really didn't seem like they wanted to be there. And there was no like cohesive attitude from one person to the other. And it really leaked through the guest experience, where the other property, which I'll name, it's offland Escalante in Utah, was just outstanding from beginning to end. And everybody seemed to enjoy their job and enjoy being there together. And it bled through to how they were treating the customers and the whole vibe at the property. And so I think that's a good reminder that, you know, as a leader, you can set that tone and if you're mindful about it and consistent with it, and have it even in your mind before you hire, like, is this a fit for what we're trying to achieve and have as an experience and service? And I think it makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 17:10

Yeah, it's it's crucial to understand your own self as a leader and really kind of get those core values, like really believe in the core values you bring. Because I've I I've seen that too. You know, I I visit a lot of properties, Jelly Stone properties and or other properties, you know, when I go out for sales visits and whatnot. And part of part of my job is I I just sit down with the team and I just listen. And I try to just hear their perspective, right? And say, I hear you, I get it. I think you could try for your own self, right? I'm not I'm not here to tell you how to operate your business in a sense of HR or personnel or whatever. I what I'm here is to listen to you to see if I can just give you a couple keywords to say, okay, maybe try this for your own self to help you become a better leader. Because I think I think what I've seen over time and what my experience, I've I've been very fortunate that I've been put in situations where I have people helping me through the way. You know, I don't ever go into a situation where I think I know everything because one, I do not know everything. I know that for sure. But I also like to hear different perspectives.

unknown 18:43

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 18:44

Do we like do we like feedback sometimes? Not really. Like I don't really want to hear what you think sometimes, but you you have to you have to listen to it. You you just you have to because it's just only gonna make you better.

Speaker 18:58

I absolutely agree, Lisa. That's great insight.

Camp Jellystone Then And Now

Speaker 19:01

Let's get into talking about Camp Jelly Stone. I did my research a little bit. Well, I have I have personal experience with, I think it used to be called Yogi Bear. The name has changed maybe a little bit over time. But my very first RVing experience as a child was in the 70s, renting an RV and driving from Wisconsin down to Orlando for Disney. And it was, I mean, my family has like the national lampoon vacation stories, but it's still the most memorable thing ever. And I don't remember a lot as a kid, but I remember the characters and I remember being at that park as I think I was probably six or seven. And then funny enough, my very first appraisal of a campground was a jellystone in Warren's, Wisconsin over 20 years ago. So that's that's where it's touched my life early on. I know the company started in 1969 in Wisconsin. So there's the old school reference. So maybe you can tell us more about what's happening today and yeah, tell us all about Camp Jellystone.

Speaker 1 20:12

Yeah, so 1969, the original Jellystone Park, Sturgeon Bay, still in the system. Great family. They do a really great job with with keeping the nostalgic character art and statues and branding, and still with the original brown and orange that the uh the original franchise had. It's kind of interesting because I've seen pictures of it and I'm like, wow, what a color combination, you know? Because now all of our signs and all of our branding and and those things, it's like loud and vibrant and fun and you know, cartoony and and and those things that bring just like all the elements that we've put into our parks kind of into one. But so yeah, you know, it's been like I said, I've been part of this from a franchisee side since 2008. And even prior to that, the stories I I would hear, you know, Rob Shooter, who just recently retired from Camp Jelly Stone, formerly known as Leisure Systems, and I think formerly known as it was another, you know, they've had a couple transitions, you know, over time or buyouts, but stories he would tell, you know, of the Amboy, Illinois location and and those, you know, old older franchisees that really brought this brand to life. If it wasn't for those folks, the Warrens, the Amboys, the Wisconsin Dells, the Robert, Louisiana's, you know, those those properties that really turned our brand into a really family friendly destination. And so now it's Turned into we've seen it evolve from memberships. We, you know, Rob would talk about he would he first order business for him, he had to go and remove some of those parks that didn't fit a standard, brought in new, and then it just became the the parks started created this family environment within within the franchise where ideas were being bounced off of and new attractions, and you tried this, how can I do that? And and that camaraderie escalated the attraction amenity recreation pillar for us or those three pillars into this what it is today. And and I I'm in I'm impressed with how those folks didn't look at each other in the brand as competition, they looked at each other as family members.

Speaker 23:10

Yeah. Well, and that that's yeah, that's an interesting perspective to hear because I there's a lot of competition and outdoor hospitality, but compared to other segments of real estate that I've been in over time, it is the most cooperative industry of people helping each other that that I've been I've been a part of. So yeah, more about Jellystone. Tell us about, you know, you you have corporate-owned locations and franchised locations.

Franchise Ownership Shifts After Covid

Speaker 1 23:42

Um yes. So we have our brand, we are sitting at 79, I believe, right now. You know, it ebbs and flows. We're not a big numbers, we're not at the big numbers, and that's okay. We we are very selective on who who we're looking for, what what brand or what you know partnerships we're looking for out there and operators, not only not only just the facilities, but also who we're going into partnership with with the operators as well. So, you know, we've we have seen our parks grow drastically. And I mean by grow, you're looking at you know, parks are ex parks expanded. I I would say from 2000, I would say after that recession time in 2008, there was another big wave. You probably saw it as well, right? There was another big wave of expanding in our and our parks did. So some of the parks that were considered, you know, 125, 130 sites, they're now 300 site parks. So you're talking about we we might not grow in numbers, but we have grown in site nights and you know those type of things. So so it's a different perspective as well, because I try to look at it and tell people, you know, we we might be small, but we're mighty, and we we do a lot within. But so our our franchisees, you know, prior to COVID, we were we were pretty much, I would say 80, nine, maybe closer to to 85 percent, maybe closer to 90, I don't know, of the individually operated and owned single park operator versus the multi-park operators. So then those folks started coming in, you know, your your North Gates of the World, your sons, those things, and they they started acquiring certain properties. COVID happened, and it felt like we just saw a drastic change in the industry. Not just not just with us, but in the industry where acquisitions, I mean, you saw it, right? Acquisitions were just through the roof. So our portfolio changed pretty quickly of ownership. We don't have any corporately owned, CJS does not own any properties. So so that is not us, but we do have, I would say probably close to 50% of our portfolio is owned by multi-park operators, which means they own multiple jelly stones within their portfolio, and still with the single park operators, the other half. That I will say has been an interesting dynamic to try to adjust to quickly. That that that is that is probably something that I still try to wrap my brain around of just how to manage two totally different operations. A single park operator, while they're managing everyone's management style is different, there's still some similarities in the needs and whatnot. And when you when you go to the multi-park operators where they're becoming more efficient, they have to because they have multiple properties and they have their own processes and they have their own procedures. I I still am learning how to adjust to that type of business model because I I I think it's I'm a curious person. I want to know how they operate, I want to know, you know, what their reasoning is behind making this process efficient, but this one's not, or or whatnot. So that that is a big adjustment, I would say, for for myself at least, because it changed very, very quickly.

Speaker 27:46

So would it be, I'm just guessing, would the single park owners tend to self-manage the parks? And do the multi-location owners hire third-party management companies? Or what do you see?

Speaker 1 28:01

Yeah, so that's that is essentially either the multi-park owners are operating them themselves. They they either have a management company that they've created, they're operating themselves, of course, or they just own them and they do have third-party management systems, you know, like Sun, you know, they have their third-party management partners, you know, Blue Water is one of them. They also manage for several other owners. And and it's great to have that on our side because you know those single park operators might not want to get sell the business just yet, they just don't want to manage it anymore. So if we have preferred partners we know would do a fantastic job, we make sure that we they stay connected and and whatnot. But yes, currently, right now, you see a lot of the single park operations still own owning and managing internally.

Speaker 28:59

So actually, to just when you were talking about growth, I I also recently worked with the Cochrane, Georgia property and met their manager there who is so energetic and smart and fun. I'm do you remember his name? Brett. Yes, yeah, yeah. Brett is fantastic. So that's a great property. So is are there franchise opportunities for people out there?

What Makes A Strong Jellystone Park

Speaker 29:25

And if so, what what makes a good Jellystone Camp Jellystone location? And what is the growth strategy for the firm?

Speaker 1 29:36

Yeah, so we are always looking, you know, territories we always, you know, open territory. Of course, as you can see on a map, you're looking at if you look at a map of all the Jellystone locations, you're gonna see a big hole out west. We're still trying to figure out how to expand more out west. You know, a lot of our properties are Midwest, East, New England, South, the South is becoming more Texas, you know, we we have quite a few in Texas, but we're always we're always looking for the right property with the right operation team. And and I say that because it's the the people you're going into business with or you're partnering with is just as important on how nice the facilities are. In my personal opinion. That's I've been doing sales for quite some time and I've met a lot of people that I just think that they they don't want your expertise or you they don't want your partnership, but want the benefits of the brand, I guess, if you wanna say it that way, or if we want to say it that way. But you know, we look for we look for properties that provide, you know, glamping, lodging experiences that have you know a hundred and at least 125 sites now. Out west, I will say that you have to accommodate a little bit just because it's the west, the areas you might not, you might not. Esse park is a great one. Just came to my mind. I mean, they're literally on the side of a mountain, you know, and and the park works there. Like we just have to be accommodating to some of those logistical pieces of the the topography and the land and whatnot. You know, someone that can come in and provide a outstanding recreational program, you know, that can provide we have the minimum requirements of of attractions, swimming pool, gaga ball, that also is you know a green flag for us. We can we can make sure that that works. And that's the other thing. What's great about our team is we can also teach them better recreational programming, part of our brand. And our positioning is making sure that we are able to uh give you the best resources possible to make a fantastic rec program that doesn't that doesn't escalate insurance or doesn't make you know require such a massive capital buy-in or or those type of things. So and then from the from the people standpoint, the the if they're looking, you know, the folks that I meet that are just one excited about the characters, you know, I I know a lot of people say Yogi Bear is not relevant anymore. And in some cases might be true, you know, it's not like the cartoons out there all the time or anything. But it's not about if they're relevant, it's about what is the experience you're giving those families when they're in in the park to get to know Yogi Bear and his friends. That that is what we teach. That anybody who has a costume with their brand, not relevant. What's relevant is the memories you're gonna make for those families with that costume. So so yeah, it's just finding people that are willing to just want to do those things and want to create those memories for those families and want to see their business grow due to cartoon character that that can bring a state of life, you know, and and that's that's my angle when it comes to finding new properties. You know, I I think there's a lot of really great spots out there, you know, territories will knock some folks out because they want to be part of the brand, but the territory is already taken. But I'm always I'm always up for a conversation if you ever want to talk about you know what the brand can do and how to elevate that guest experience in any way possible. So great.

Speaker 34:10

Well, you yeah, that I was gonna ask you what the value proposition was, and I think you just you just nailed it. Yeah. How is programming support? Yeah, that it it is truly the we talk about the buzzword of experiential hospitality. Jolly Stone's been doing it forever, right? Yes, we have learned a lot. How hot are those character suits? I can't even imagine. I'd be just be sweating, especially down south.

Speaker 1 34:40

Yeah, it's they're they're pretty warm. They are pretty warm. I applaud every every person in each location, every team member that that does it. I I give kudos to every single one, every single franchisee. But it, you know, when it's a hundred degrees out there and you've got a hayride or you have, gosh, just site visits and whatnot. I mean, you you grin and bear it. And nowadays, you know, we we teach our we teach our teams that you just you have to accommodate and make sure that you're giving breaks and whatnot. But boy, Sherry, it's I'll go in and ten minutes later I'll come out and just completely soaked.

Speaker 35:24

Your own personal sauna. Yeah. Stressed with health benefits at this point. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 35:32

I I I remember when I had to, we were doing a Christmas parade in downtown Nashville, and we were doing it in conjunction with the light show, our Christmas light show. We were promoting it and whatnot, and I had to walk, I had to walk over a mile and a half in a character in the parade. Uh up. And I was like, okay, this shouldn't be bad. We went up by Titan Stadium, down 2nd Avenue, and then up the hill of Broadway. And I was like, I think I'm I'm gonna croak over at this point.

Speaker 36:13

I see a new, like a new event race that somebody somebody should hold, you know, mini marathons and character suits the only potential. You could do that on your next corporate event for team building.

Speaker 1 36:30

You know what's wild is I probably could bring that up. And our franchisees, they are so dang competitive. I I bet you we could probably accommodate something like that, and they would love it.

Speaker 36:42

It'd be hilarious if you get people running. Oh my god. Well, tell tell me about how you've talked about it a little bit, but how is Camp Jellystone changing? You talked about the industry changing, obviously, consolidation, multi-park operators, but you know, what's the what's the what are the goals? What are you reaching for? Is is clamping a bigger part of what's the future path?

Seasonals Ancillary Revenue And Occupancy

Speaker 1 37:10

Jellystone Park is highly transient. Is that Jellystone Park is a highly transient model? And we we try to keep seasonals or would like to see seasonals or monthly stays, you know, about 20% of the business. Even less than that would be great because we're we're so we're high on the ancillary revenue, right? Our ancillary revenue train is part of our model from retail to attractions to programming, golf carts, you know, all those things that add up the the what the site night total site night spend is. But we we see that currently right now we're we're adjusting on on accommodating a higher percentage of the of the seasonal traffic, because you know, essentially that's we need we need occupancy rates to come back to where they were. You know, it's it's and and I don't know how you feel about it or your thoughts on it, but seeing that COVID rate of that high occupancy rate to it's dropped. I mean, we're fortunate enough right now we're we're seeing some positive pace as as a whole system, very small, but we're seeing some positive pace. But I think a I think a lot of that has to do with incorporating more seasonals and for this year.

Speaker 38:45

Yeah, I think 2025 for many markets I agree has been down, and especially high amenity parks like yours, getting those site nights has been so critical. And I have heard I have heard some positive things for 2026 as well. It's not not no huge rebound, but just you know, moving back in the right direction. So that's good to

Glamping Growth And Pricing Reality Check

Speaker 39:13

hear. Are you changing any of your lodging accommodations? Is that strategy different? Your mix of RV sites versus cabins or any alternate lodging?

Speaker 1 39:24

Yeah, we we will always stay focused on providing glamping, VR, lodging, different lodging opportunities. We'll always promote that because we see that's the where the value is. And when you're talking about what what the site generates yearly, I mean the the glamping units, whether they're the cabins, whether they're domes or wagons or tree houses or whatever they have in the properties, you know, Burleson built a pirate ship. The Burleson Jelly Stone has a pirate ship as one of their glamping options.

Speaker 40:02

Ah, I didn't know that. That's so cool.

Speaker 1 40:04

Yeah, they they took some containers, built it out, and it's a massive pirate ship that they've they've made, and it's two-bedroom, you know, style accommodations. But that's that is where we tell our guests that or tell our franchisees, excuse me, that the best bang for your buck is going to be there. I think the challenge that we see, and I'd honestly like to know your opinion on it as well, is is the the the price, the pricing of these units have become exceedingly more it's just high. They're high. And how do you how do you get single park operators to see the value of what they used to see a cabin at $35,000, $40,000 is now $110.

Speaker 40:58

Yeah. The pricing, you know, especially when you're a when you're a family-oriented park, it's and especially if many people are doing camping vacations, they're budget conscious, right? So I can't imagine I, you know, what the pirate, the pirate ship unit cost, but there's always going to be groups and larger groups of families. So maybe, you know, maybe the the multi-bedroom play is is an interesting one because then you're appealing to larger extended families that you can accommodate to be, you know, in a larger unit together. But it it it comes down to what you need to spend to build the unit. And I mean, when you talk about 65 versus 110, I don't know, 110 sounds like a sounds like a deal these days, even even without a private bathroom, depending on on where you're at. But I do think especially right now, I do get nervous about some really pricey accommodations and what where the economy's at, and that that if you go super high end, that's a whole different game, a whole different story. But right now, people's budgets and gas budgets are squeezed, and I think they're they're trading, trading down in pricing for where they want to stay. So I don't know if it's really the time to go too crazy, too crazy on that. But I do like the idea of the unique larger accommodations. I think that's that's pretty interesting. And treehouses are awesome if you can find, especially in in your setting, if you can find a halfway affordable way to get them built, you know. Maybe they're just elevated cabins with some rope bridges. You have that kind of adventure.

Speaker 1 42:46

So yeah. And I and I think too the the pricing strategy with it is also something we're trying to change within our system, you know, is just getting more tools and resources out there regarding like the price sensitivity of the world today, you know. It's it's we all know, you know, we're still using the word COVID, that type of thing. We all know that that's over, but that pricing structure is still there. And for for certain people, now I think I think there's some that says we're gonna that has said we're we're cutting back, but I I I think that for our brand, you know, it is it is an elevated experience and and whatnot. But I also know that you know affordability is still something we need to achieve at the end of the day.

Speaker 43:45

I think about how how thrifty my family was, and we rented this janky RV from just an individual, it broke down so much. I mean, I didn't care, I was having fun, but it was. So stressful for my family, but they, you know, this was a budget vacation to rent an individual's used RV to drive from Wisconsin to Orlando. And I know this is eons ago, but I do think it's on a lot of people's minds. And I I hope that the I hope that the the jelly stones of the world I hope they do well in in the current environment. I think that people are going to do more driving vacations closer to home. I think that that should play well to to your to your franchises, do you think?

Speaker 1 44:30

Yeah. I I think that we've seen, of course, the booking window is shorter now. One thing I don't know that I need to look up is is has the driving distance become shorter as well? You know, I our driving distance was between two and a half, three hours. Now there's with our properties, they are spaced out in a way in certain areas that that might be your only one that you you can go to is two and a half, three hours away. But you know, we're we're surrounded some of the properties, you know, are surrounded by some pretty pretty big cities. And I'm interested to see as the summer rolls on, not only is the booking window gone down, but has the driving distance also shortened?

Speaker 45:15

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 45:18

And due to gas as well.

Speaker 45:22

What is you talked about kind of where it's going and uh kind of changes

Reducing Guest Friction To Drive Returns

Speaker 45:28

in the market? What is your messaging for the year in terms of your main focus and goal leading the team?

Speaker 1 45:37

My messaging this year has been elevating the guest experience. Let's focus, focus on that. At the end of the day, we want the guests to come back to the park. Maybe not this year, but we want it to be next year, and we want it to be the year after that, and we want it to be the year after that as well. You know, I I think one thing about the market as well that people don't talk about as much. They talk about, you know, the booking windows, they talk about you know those elements of it, but the guest needs are changing. And and the guest needs are changing, I think, drastically as well, because the demographic is also changing of who's camping. So when I when I talk to the team and when we when we go through things, it's always how do we take away friction points for the guests? How are we elevating the experience? Whether it's you know changing how you answer the phone, maybe it's changing the uh five-second rule of saying if someone is within you or near you within 10 yards or 15 feet or however you want to do it, you're saying hello to them. You know, it's kind of that Chick-fil-A model where it's always my pleasure, you know. So it's what are we what are we doing to deliver consistent quality, consistent quality and memory-driving experiences that make them want to come back and make them want to talk about it at Christmas time around the table with their families and make them say we want to try this again, but then bring our neighbors because they camp too. And that's just not with our brand, that's with the whole campground system, the outdoor hospitality system. You know, I tell people all the time that my brand or the brand I work for relies on everyone else in this industry because if a guest has a terrible experience at a location that's not ours, we might have lost that camping guest forever. Right? So our our business, everyone's business in this industry relies on each other to provide that best experience possible.

Speaker 48:12

That is a great attitude. The industry is lucky to have you. I I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 48:19

Well, I we're glad you came back, Melissa. You know, I I I'm glad I did too. I it's interesting when I when I look back on my past and I look back at just like I said, you as a manager, like there are times that when we get together at OHCE and these things, I just kind of want to sit everybody in a room and just be like, tell me your stories. Like I want to hear and I want to validate you, and I want to make sure that you know that it's okay to have that story, and it's okay to use that story to make yourself better, make someone else better, make your business better. And I just I believe there probably are other industries out there that are probably just as fun as this one, but I just I can't see myself anywhere else.

Speaker 49:15

Yeah. I agree. Well, and you Yeah, if you ever need a job, I used to have a me. No, that's funny. I mean, I'm in all seriousness, of course, but one of my friends that was semi-retired that worked for me for a long time, she we gave her the title of director of fun time activities. And I think I think beyond your clear expertise as a leader in operations and sales, that that should also be your unofficial title. Yeah, yeah, I would be fun about this industry. And yeah, I I mean every every industry event I go to and and just the people I meet day to day that I'm working with, they're just great people. Yeah, and pretty lucky for

What’s Next and Lisa's View on a Collaborative Industry

Speaker 50:09

it. Uh so what's next for you, Lisa, either professionally, personally, fun trip, what's what's on your horizon for the latter half of the year?

Speaker 1 50:20

Yeah, well, this is we're going into the time of the year where my team goes out and visits the properties and does their audit or assessment. So I'm pretty thrilled to to get out and see the parks and see them in in the summertime where the they're thriving and and the guests are there and just seeing how everyone's doing, you know, making sure that they're mentally taking care of themselves and making sure that you know they're they're being able to just take a moment. Some of my favorite things I love to do when I'm out is you know, I'll if I have time, I know there's sometimes it's a time constraint, but I I love to get back in the kitchen and just like help cook some food or like fold some clothes. I'll I'll help the retail department in there fold some clothes, or like if they need some help behind the counter, like I'll I love to just insert myself wherever they need a hand, you know, and it's kind of nice because sometimes I'll I'll go and I'll do it. Now I don't do it all the time because you know timing, but it was I remember we stopped at the Mill Run Pennsylvania location. It was me and the three retail our retail team, three of them, and they were working on the store some, and I'm like, where can I go? What can I do? And and uh the manager Tracy, she's like, I need you in the kitchen, and I'm like, Great, I can't wait. And oh my gosh, the sheer amount of food they make in that property. I was like, I can't keep up with you guys. But it it's those moments that like kind of humble me a little bit because it just reminds me of how hard those franchisees work and how hard and or just the time and energy and the blood, sweat, and tears they put into their job is just incredible, incredible. So I'll be out doing that. I love to fish, so hopefully I'll get out to fish some. This, you know, I I've like I like we said earlier, I was at the beach for about 10 days working remotely from there, and the fishing was great, and and then yeah, just kind of getting ready. I I got my lot of I have a lot of hands in the pot and plate, you know. I'm on the national school faculty, so working through that. I'm on the OHI board, and it's been a pleasure being able to learn more about that side of things. And for us internally, like we are moving and shaking and trying to figure out, you know, how to get in front of AI and all those things, and it's it's gonna be a roller coaster, but I'm I'm here for it. I'm I'm glad that there's you know, every year is different. Every year's different.

Speaker 53:18

That's true. Yeah, it's it can feel the changes in the industry just from what's driving demand and supply to technology, a lot of it can feel overwhelming, but we are never bored.

Speaker 1 53:35

No, no, we are not. We are never bored. And that is something that I love about this industry is that it's always something different, and yeah, it's always about the people.

Speaker 53:49

That's right. Well, congratulations on all your success, and I know that's gonna continue. Really grateful to have spent time with you on the podcast today. Do you have any asks of the listeners or where they can reach you if they want to know more about Camp Jellystone?

Speaker 1 54:07

Yeah, they can reach me anytime at my email, you know, L lcourtney at campjellystone.com. Whether they want to talk Jellystone, whether they just want to talk and get some feedback about uh industry-related items and and and those things. I'll I'll be at OHCE in November. I teach at the national school in February. So I think the biggest ask I have, I think, of everyone who's listening is just share your stories. I I think I think that is probably some of the most helpful education you can get out there in this industry. You know, I I think that we there's not there's not a college degree for this, right? There's not anything out there in in the next level of education to help you prepare for campground management. What what I think helps us prepare for this is networking and hearing what other people have gone through. Good, bad, challenging, uplifting, whatever the story may be, there's always perspective from it. And and I think that if we just continue to collaborate and share and stay as one big outdoor hospitality unit, we're gonna continue to be stronger and we're gonna continue to grow every single year. So that's my biggest ask. I think I think it'll be helpful if you haven't done it before, if you have if you haven't heard someone else's story of what they went through or asked about it or shared yours. There's a lot of value in that.

Speaker 56:04

Amen. That's that's perfect. And I hope to be able to allow more people to share their stories through the podcast. So thanks for sharing yours. And sounds like I will see you in Fort Worth at OHCE.

Speaker 1 56:18

Yeah, sounds great. And thank you, thank you so much for for having me, listening to me. The call me anytime. Love, love to keep chatting.

Speaker 56:26

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you, Lisa.