Oct. 8, 2025

Meet Your Host: Connor Schwab

Meet Your Host: Connor Schwab

Send us a text A sign-off, a handover, and a candid origin story. We open with why the mic is changing hands and then dive straight into Connor’s path—from a childhood of four brothers and a legendary treehouse to a career shaped by a passion for the outdoors and a data-led obsession with outdoor hospitality investment data. You’ll hear how a sold-out weekend in Joshua Tree reframed “dirt” as valuable inventory, why the numbers pushed him from traditional camping toward glamping, and how a mo...

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Send us a text

A sign-off, a handover, and a candid origin story. We open with why the mic is changing hands and then dive straight into Connor’s path—from a childhood of four brothers and a legendary treehouse to a career shaped by a passion for the outdoors and a data-led obsession with outdoor hospitality investment data. You’ll hear how a sold-out weekend in Joshua Tree reframed “dirt” as valuable inventory, why the numbers pushed him from traditional camping toward glamping, and how a mother–son Kilimanjaro summit trip transformed into a year long 'R&D' trip.

Connor unpacks the deals that almost happened, including a pre-COVID lease-to-own near Smith Rock. We explore his years at Sage building investment-grade feasibility studies, harvesting comp data from hundreds of booking calendars, and partnering to elevate industry insights beyond surveys and into measurable demand. We also confront the hard parts—burnout, trade-offs, and choosing a mission..

Looking forward, Connor maps a clear product vision: hard‑walled, glass‑forward cabins within two hours of major cities, 20–50 keys, indoor–outdoor living without the canvas headaches, and operations designed for an unplugged guest experience. He’s stepping into US‑wide brokerage with his brother while continuing selective consulting and feasibility work, aiming to help founders buy smarter, fund faster, and build places that connect with the natural world. If you care about glamping strategy, outdoor resort feasibility, and the “why” that keeps teams going when permits stall and spreadsheets glare, this one’s for you.

Enjoyed the conversation and want more like this? Follow the show, share it with a friend who loves the outdoors, and leave a quick review so others can find us.

Sponsors:

Clockwork Design
Outdoor hospitality's top architecture & design firm. To learn more email christian@clockwork-ad.com

Sage Outdoor Advisory
The leading outdoor consultancy in feasibility studies and appraisals. To learn more email contact@sageoutdooradvisory.com 

00:09 - Farewell And New Host Setup

01:05 - Why Host Backstories Matter

01:53 - Brothers, Camping, And A Legendary Treehouse

03:28 - School Trouble And Socratic Fit

06:06 - Recruiting In SF And Sales Skills

07:31 - The Camping Crunch And Hipcamp Insight

09:06 - MBA, Financials, And Pivot To Glamping

10:50 - Kilimanjaro And Safari Glamping Awakening

13:08 - Global Field Research And Namibia

15:25 - The Near-Deal At Joshua Tree And COVID

18:08 - Reset During Lockdowns And Journey Vitae

21:05 - Sage, Data, And Industry Partnerships

24:00 - Sandy Vans, Burnout, And Hard Choices

27:08 - Scaling Feasibility And Building Datasets

30:14 - Stepping Back, Consulting, And Next Moves

33:25 - Brokerage Plans And The Dream Property

36:15 - Purpose, Persistence, And Community

WEBVTT

00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:13.039
Hello and welcome back to the Unique Hospitality Podcast.

00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:15.119
The last time I'll ever say that, sadly.

00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:23.519
If you listen to last week's special episode, then you'll know that I am uh officially stepping aside from the podcast, although I'm sure I'll be back as a guest from time to time.

00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:28.480
Today we're kind of doing a bit of a meet your new main host kind of thing.

00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:32.079
You might remember, I think it was probably was it Christmas last year?

00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:37.759
We did a meet me episode where Connor interviewed me about my backstory and journey and all of that.

00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:39.439
So we're returning the favour today.

00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:41.840
I'm interviewing Connor about his story.

00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:46.960
Uh and I think Connor's gonna do the same for Sherry, who's obviously the new co-host of the of the podcast.

00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:49.759
Um always excited to always fun to talk to Connor.

00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:52.960
I'm kind of looking forward to learning more about uh your backstory.

00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:57.600
So are you excited to kind of delve into your your childhood and all the all the hidden memories?

00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.479
It's funny to be on the pod talking about myself.

00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:10.000
So I know in the podcast that I listen to, you get to know the hosts so well from their questions, but then I think it's really nice to get context on those people.

00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:10.799
Yeah.

00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:31.840
And that's kind of and that's kind of the goal for the listeners of this, is so that you can get to know us as people and have context for the things that we're saying, you know, on a personal level and also a professional level to understand what I have done or not done, and that might help give credibility, or you can know, oh, Connor's full of it on this one, he knows nothing about that.

00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:39.120
Well, just as a just as a warning to you, when I when you interviewed me, I ended up getting tricked into talking about my dating life.

00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:44.560
Um, I got texts from my sister saying, Oh, glad everyone else in the family got mentioned apart from me.

00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:50.959
I say you might you might you might get slagged off by certain people, but um it's good, it's good fun, it's good fun.

00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.040
So I guess we'll we'll go from the start.

00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:54.159
Tell me about your childhood.

00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:58.319
I'm the third of four brothers, so I'd say that really defined my childhood.

00:01:58.400 --> 00:01:59.840
I was mostly getting beat up.

00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:06.640
I did get to beat up my littlest brother a little bit, but yeah, mostly I was getting beat up and losing it at most activities.

00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:11.039
But the really fun and special thing was we got to do a lot of camping as a family.

00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.800
But the really special thing was that our dad built us a treehouse.

00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:20.000
I was probably like five when he built the what would become the third floor of the treehouse.

00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:24.560
And over the next decade, me and my brothers added to it.

00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:40.560
We built a roof and then we built down on the sides and we expanded out, and it was camouflaged and had pool pulley systems and baskets and a rope ladder, and we painted it all camouflage and um had little stashes for all the our our candy and things like that.

00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.039
And it was kind of the stuff of legend in the neighborhood.

00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:44.560
Um, and that was a really cool project.

00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:51.680
So I always like to joke that I've been in the glamping industry since I was five because we had a tree house and we used to have people come sleep over at the treehouse.

00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:57.120
I would say that there's some uh there's some strong genes in the Schwab family as well, because you and your brothers look exactly the same.

00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:01.439
If you ever see ever see a picture, it's hard to tell which one's Connor and which one's but um yeah.

00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.319
I mean, are you were you like were you taking part in building that?

00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:05.360
Are you handy?

00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:07.919
Yeah, I we I've swung a lot of hammers.

00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.599
That was about like as far as my carp, you know, carpenter skills went.

00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:13.360
I mean, it was a shoddy job.

00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:19.120
We would run around to construction sites as kids at night and just steal like the scrap wood.

00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:27.280
I don't know if stealing scrap wood because I think it was probably junk, but like you know, that was how we got the materials to like expand on because we weren't we weren't buying anything.

00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:28.639
Where whereabouts was this?

00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.680
Uh this was in Lake Oswego, Oregon, which is next to Portland, Oregon.

00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:32.400
It's like a suburb.

00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:34.879
And that's an outdoorsy area?

00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:39.439
Not Lake Oswigo, not as more like a a fancy suburb.

00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:40.080
Right.

00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:48.000
But we where we would go camping, we'd go up to like Mount Hood and in the Oregon wilderness, and we'd go to like Lake Billy Shinook and things like that.

00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:50.560
So yeah, we did a lot of camping throughout Oregon.

00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:52.080
And uh what kind of kid were you?

00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:53.680
I was a troublesome kid.

00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:56.479
School, school and I did not get along very well.

00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:58.240
I was always in trouble at school.

00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:04.080
I recently got to look at my uh behavioral probation write-up that I got at high school.

00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:08.560
I got too many jugs, which is like justice under God, because I went to like a private Catholic school.

00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:14.159
Just it was and it was basically if you get another detention, you're gonna get suspended or or expelled.

00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:19.680
So I was in trouble from probably kindergarten through senior year of high school.

00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:21.920
Just not that that surprises me.

00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:25.279
I don't you never it never struck me as a as a troublemaker.

00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:26.399
What are you getting up to?

00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:39.759
You know what was fascinating was I I got to go, I eventually ended up going to my entrepreneurial MBA program, which was you know all of my own choice, and I, you know, paid for that myself and through my own finances.

00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.079
And that school was all Socratic.

00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:43.920
So it was all student-led discussions.

00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:44.879
There was no lectures.

00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:48.800
Every every class, all the students were running the discussion.

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And I loved it.

00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:53.920
And I actually excelled and was top of the class and gave our commencement speech.

00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:59.360
And it was fascinating to me how I was so bad at school when it was just lectures.

00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:09.839
And then I think back now, I'm like, if I had to go to normal school now and you'd tell me to sit still for eight hours and like listen to you know an adult talk at me, I would still probably do terrible.

00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:16.000
I just have like too much energy and ADD to just sit and listen with no engagement.

00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:17.120
So yeah.

00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:23.120
So what were you just like messing around in the back of the class or too busy talking or what?

00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:26.800
My friend got married recently, and I mentioned this in his best man speech.

00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:43.839
Um there was this weird flying beetle mating season thing going on out at the playground, and so we got an altoid box and jammed 20 or 30 of these little beetles in an altoid box, and then we went into our religion class and released all these beetles in our religion class.

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:49.360
Sister Teresa was not happy with making all these jokes about how it was the plague.

00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:55.040
They didn't look we didn't it was the plague in our class, and uh that that was a good that was a that's kind of funny.

00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.360
So did you this Socratic course?

00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.560
That was your M MBA, which was that come after college, I think.

00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:04.800
Yeah, so post I was a kid who never knew what I wanted to do ever.

00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:06.000
Uh not in college.

00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:07.120
I love social stuff.

00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:11.920
I planned a lot of events, I was in the fraternity and did events in Rush and things like that.

00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:19.759
And post-college I became a recruiter because it sounded fun the idea of taking clients out on the golf course and out to fancy dinners and drinks.

00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:26.879
So they sold me the sales dream, and I became a uh a biotech recruiter in San Francisco for four years.

00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:28.879
You've you've talked about that before though.

00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:33.759
That that did serve you, you know, you you did learn a fair amount doing that though, right?

00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:34.879
Yeah, it was amazing.

00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:43.600
I had really good managers and they taught me a lot, and it was just enough structure and support, but enough to just let you go out and kind of figure it out.

00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:55.199
And one of the things that really taught me was how to basically have a cold reach out to any business or any person and be able to try to find common ground and and make a connection.

00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:02.160
I think one of my skills is that I have no qualms reaching out to anybody and trying to make a connection.

00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:04.160
So that is a that's a nice skill.

00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:09.839
So at what point did you decide you were gonna uh go back to school and do an MBA?

00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:20.079
I'd really hit my stride in recruiting, and at my best, I was number 20 out of what I think it was 2,000 sales professionals in the in the world for billing.

00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.560
And it was a very money motivated culture and environment.

00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:26.160
I was just never about that.

00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.160
It's just like every meeting was about who was making the most money for the business.

00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:37.040
It just felt a bit hollow and empty, and I wanted something more substantive, which ultimately led me to look for the next thing.

00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:41.360
And it was around the time hip camp started in I was in the Bay.

00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:46.879
And if anyone knows, when you try to go camping and you live in San Francisco, it's it's really, really hard.

00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:49.279
And that's because you're in this tiny apartment.

00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:51.120
You probably don't have a car.

00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.040
If you do have a car, it's not a big car.

00:07:53.120 --> 00:08:01.199
So having sleeping bags and tents and cooking equipments and a four-wheel drive vehicle with space for your gear to be able to go camping is a real challenge.

00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:18.240
And then on top of that, assuming you have all that, it's extremely difficult to book any camping within three hours of the city because it all gets booked up because there's just so much demand, you know, for the very, very amazing nature, but very limited relative to the population.

00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.839
So if we wanted to go camping, we'd have to drive four hours from the city.

00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:32.960
And that was kind of when I got introduced to hip camp and also this like big need that there wasn't enough campgrounds and there wasn't enough private camping in the bay.

00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.279
So that was kind of the beginning of the slide bulb moment.

00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:36.639
And we would plan these trips.

00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:38.000
We'd plan big big trips.

00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:40.080
We'd called it like the adventure crew.

00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:48.559
And we had an email list of like 50 people, and once a quarter we'd plan a trip to Big Sur or the Redwoods or up to Tahoe or Desolation Wilderness.

00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:49.759
And that was the beginning.

00:08:49.840 --> 00:09:05.120
And then I went to a trip to Joshua Tree with some friends, and uh basically we drove into Joshua Tree from San Diego, and we we there was no campsites anywhere, and there was no hotel rooms, and we had all of our gear and we were up there for the weekend, and we're like, all right, what are we gonna do?

00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:20.240
So we look on Airbnb, and there's no Airbnbs left, but there is people Airbnb like the dirt, literal sand, you know, in 29 palms outside of it, and they provided a campfire ring, a picnic table, trash, and I don't even know if they did water.

00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:28.080
And we paid 50 bucks a night to go stay at this property, and we were thrilled to pay 50 bucks a night to do it and go get to enjoy the park the next day.

00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:34.799
And then we arrived at this property, and there was this guy had 10 of these sites, and you know, it was full the whole weekend.

00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:43.759
So this guy who basically was collecting tr people's trash was his only expense besides the picnic tables and fire rings, and he made, what was it, 500?

00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:45.519
He made 500 a night for two nights.

00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.799
So he made a thousand bucks over a weekend, you know, to take people's trash.

00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.919
And I was like, oh, this this might be really on to something.

00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:52.960
When when was this?

00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:53.600
What year?

00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.639
This was 2016, probably, 2017.

00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:05.759
So before things started accelerating the glamping wise, I suppose, you know, obviously under canvas or around, but it wasn't, you know, there wasn't an industry to speak of at that point.

00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.279
Yeah, and I was more interested initially I was more interested in camping.

00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.679
Like, you know, you bring your own tent, things like that.

00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:19.840
And it wasn't until I started crunching the numbers that I had the opportunity to go to my MBA program, and you get to choose a thesis of anything that you want.

00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:29.120
And you basically create a business and you research it heavily and write a pitch and go through all the details and you have interviews with people in the industry and things like that.

00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:42.639
And once I started to play around with the financials, I realized that it's really hard to make the numbers work with campgrounds just simply because the you know, the price that you can get per night, whatever, twenty to fifty bucks, is really low, you know.

00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:47.440
So it's it's hard to make those numbers work, is which which is when I started to move into the glamping mindset.

00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:49.200
And your MBA was was worse.

00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:52.559
It was in Austin, Texas, at a school called Acton.

00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:53.200
Okay.

00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:57.360
Is that uh I've heard uh well, I've heard Austin can be a fun city.

00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:58.399
Was it was it fun then?

00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:00.720
It was an extremely rigorous program.

00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:06.960
So the first six months online, the second six months in person, but the second six months, it was 100-hour weeks.

00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:08.559
I mean, it was cra it was crazy.

00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:10.080
We would meet at 6 a.m.

00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.080
and then have class till noon, and then we'd start preparing for the next day of case studies.

00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.360
So it was basically go to sleep at midnight, wake up at 5 a.m.

00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:18.159
for six months.

00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:19.519
And they partying?

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:26.559
No, we would have I created this this group where we would go Fridays and we'd have a barbecue.

00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:32.320
And it was like the only time of the week where I would not do any work was from 4 p.m.

00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:33.279
to 10 p.m.

00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:33.919
on Fridays.

00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:38.080
We'd go have a barbecue, have some beers, and just not talk about school.

00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:48.559
You um, you know, you when you were doing this kind of case study, business idea, whatever, for you for your MBA assignment, you were moving away from traditional camping to this, let's call it clamping.

00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:55.919
Had you gone to had you had any kind of clamping or upscale outdoor experience at this point aside from that hip camp trip?

00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:05.600
I'd spent a lot of time in nature and looking online, but that really started when I graduated from that MBA in 2018, 2019.

00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:10.480
My mom wanted to, my grandma actually had always been really interested in Kilimanjaro.

00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:17.120
And so my mom mentioned that she wanted to go to Kilimanjaro, and I was like, oh, I'll I'll go hike it with you.

00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:23.679
And so we ended up going on a mother-son trip to Tanzania to climb Mount Kilimanjaro after I graduated.

00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:24.639
So shout out to mom.

00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:29.840
She crushed it, we both summited and had an amazing time, and then we did a safari after the climb.

00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.039
And yeah, that was my first time, I'd say, properly glamping.

00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:38.399
And I also think it was in the Serengeti, which I think is probably one of the more popular safari locations.

00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:47.919
And I think that in South Africa, probably Tanzania, Kenya, and South Africa is really the birthplace of of glamping and the transient luxury experience out in the bush on the savannah.

00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:49.679
Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day.

00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:59.679
You know, I was planning out some LinkedIn content for the next few months, and one of the one of the posts that things that I'm going to talk about is the Western glamping industry, I suppose, kind of started and evolved in the UK.

00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:07.679
You know, the the the origins of outdoor camping obviously, you know, don't come from the UK, but kind of the industry as a such started in the UK.

00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:12.960
Certainly the likes of under canvas in the US kind of pioneered it and and grew it a lot.

00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:20.480
Um and because the US is the US, that's where the capital will be, that's where a lot of the focus will be from from in the West.

00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:26.720
But I don't think you'll ever come close to matching how cool African safaris and African glamping is.

00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:33.120
You know, there's did a um we did a podcast with with the guys in uh was it South Africa, Sabi Sabi.

00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:35.519
Yeah, and Ghana, South Africa and Ghana.

00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:36.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:40.879
And and just you know, being able to step outside your tent and see a you know bloody giraffe.

00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:45.120
Like you're not you're not really gonna get that in camping in Texas Hill Country, for example.

00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.600
So I think that's that's definitely on the bucket list for me.

00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:55.519
I don't think you'll you'll ever be as I don't think any US project could be as cool as just being right there in the in the midst of of nature in in Africa.

00:13:55.840 --> 00:14:01.679
Yeah, and it's it's a wild experience because and I don't know if this came across when we were interviewing the guests.

00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:20.720
Imagine you're in Yellowstone and you're like in a meadow where the animals would be, and they're just pitching a tent, and they might have five to ten tents next to each other, and then you're just on this meadow where the animals are, and then they run for whatever five or six months of the year, and they take it all down, it's like they were never there.

00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:25.279
So I don't know if people fully realize it, but you're you're out in nature.

00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:29.919
There's like you could walk in 30 minutes in any direction, and you you know, there wouldn't be a building.

00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:34.399
So it's very remote and it's it's very special in that regard.

00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:39.519
Yeah, so so your kind of glamping experience started after the MBA then, right?

00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:41.039
Yeah, kind of, yeah.

00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:49.919
That was so for th this project that you were that you were doing, you were coming up with a a business idea for something you hadn't really experienced.

00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.600
What was the uh what was the the pitch that you were making at the NBA?

00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:57.360
Yeah, it started as camping and then it moved into clamping.

00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:06.960
So it was basically buying five acres outside of Joshua Tree and buying the land and starting with campgrounds and then it moved into clamping as I looked at the numbers more.

00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:16.399
So it was a ton of research on the costs and the market and the visitations, and I called a lot of uh operators and things like that.

00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.840
Uh and then we pitch it to a board of prospective investors.

00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:22.559
You know, investors basically.

00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:25.279
Was it well received?

00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.519
It was pretty well received.

00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:36.159
I did learn there's a lot I didn't know about like zoning and permitting entitlements and utilities and like those types of costs and OTA fees, you know.

00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:40.799
So there was a lot I didn't know at the time that I that I learned more about down the road.

00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:52.879
And if you let's say you you know you're a millionaire at the time and you had the budget to to implement that idea, do you think if if you had done it in what you know 2018 it would it would have been a success and still be going there?

00:15:53.120 --> 00:16:03.200
If I think if I had gotten if I was able to get the right permitting and if I was able to, you know, like get utility access, then yeah, I think it would have cr I think it would have crushed it.

00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:11.360
You know, I think the Joshua Tree market maybe now has like a moratorium or something to that effect.

00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:18.159
But I also think it's a it's a really robust market because you just have that Southern California demand next to the Joshua Tree National Park.

00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.159
So I think it might be a little bit saturated, but I think you're you're in good shape.

00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:30.720
And am I right in saying that during the MBA process you kind of made your first industry connection with with Blake Smith of Warden Retreats?

00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:31.759
Yes, yeah.

00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:35.279
So Blake Smith, the founder of Walden Retreats, was in the class ahead of me.

00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:45.440
And so they our school was very big on interviewing mentors in the industry, we know whether they had some way to help you or not.

00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.600
It was basically just like just be speaking with people who you know you idolize.

00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:51.360
And Blake was definitely one of them.

00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:55.200
And he was literally in the middle of launching Walden retreats when I was there.

00:16:55.440 --> 00:17:02.399
So it was very special to be able to talk to him and hear he's just a fantastic like operator and visionary.

00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.799
So getting to have his mentorship through it was was a gift.

00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:17.519
Yeah, and we we've done a couple of episodes with Blake, and they're always worth going back to because as you say, he's sharp and he's he's obviously learnt a ton over the years and he's he's he's doing well, he's in the process of expanding.

00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:20.240
So yeah, he's he's he's uh he's a great operator.

00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:31.359
You moved away from you got your MBA and then how long after it was was was that how long after that was it when you started thinking about doing your a project of your own for real?

00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:35.119
I ended up traveling for about a year after graduation.

00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:37.039
Fell in love, I think.

00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:38.720
Did f I did fall in love.

00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.839
See, it's my time to to get you back now.

00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:43.759
Yeah, I I did.

00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:54.160
And let's see, that was traveling, and I spent about four months in Africa, about two months in Europe, and then ended up like another four to six months traveling around the American West.

00:17:54.480 --> 00:18:00.720
And what started as just a trip to go hiking with my mom after the glamping thing, I was like, you know what?

00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:06.640
I ended up going to Rwanda and got really involved with like a children's library there, and ended up staying there for a while.

00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:11.359
And I saw a lot of really cool glamping projects being built on a lake there.

00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:24.319
And I had a chance to speak with the owners and the folks working on the construction of these epic bungalows that were like handmade out of thousands and thousands of kind of like bamboo shoots or like these reed materials that's all woven together.

00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.000
And and then that kind of was like, well, maybe I should just keep traveling.

00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:32.720
And so I ultimately didn't get on my return flight, and I I kept solo traveling.

00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:40.480
And then everywhere I went, I was like, where's the coolest, most unique outdoor or experiential hospitality, you know, in this place that I'm going?

00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:46.400
And I would go there and walk the property and look at the units and took I took thousands of photos, and it's it was super cool.

00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:51.359
Is there anything in particular you you took from all those experiences that you you carry through to today?

00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.799
Probably one of the most like adventuresome places I've ever been is Namibia.

00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.680
I always tell people it's yeah, it's one of my favorite experiences.

00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:06.799
I went there and I'd planned to go to the hostels and try to find someone who would, you know, rent a car with me to to do a four or five-day trip around the country.

00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.640
And no one goes to Namibia anyways.

00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:12.000
And then I was there in like April, which was just like tours low season.

00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.680
So I spent two days at the hostels trying to get someone to hire a car with me.

00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:17.759
Couldn't find anyone at four different hostels.

00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.000
And so I just went at it on my own.

00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:27.200
And Namibia's crazy because you could just drive for like two hours and you you might see like another car or two.

00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:28.480
There's just nothing.

00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:36.400
And I remember just driving around at sunset, and there'd be like zebras running next to just me and my car, and I have my windows down, like listening to music.

00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.240
I'm like, this is a wild experience.

00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:44.480
And I ended up staying at all these hip camp Airbnb things, and I ended up staying at this one property in Namibia.

00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:49.119
I was the only one who stayed at this, you know, quote unquote campground, but super rustic.

00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:54.960
It had the shade structure, but it had the guy, I was like, Oh, it's, you know, the toilet and the shower is like that way.

00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:56.640
So the guy leaves.

00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:57.759
I s I settle my stuff.

00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:00.480
I was like, well, I gotta check out this toilet shower situations.

00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:10.799
I walk around the corner, and the the toilet and shower are like built into this rock outcropping of the cliff, and there's no privacy.

00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.559
It's totally open, there's no walls, it's totally open air.

00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:19.440
And both of them just look out over hundred, a hundred miles of desert.

00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:26.160
And going to shower and use the toilet in that environment, broad daylight, just looking for a hundred miles.

00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.240
I was like, this is crazy.

00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:34.960
So I always dreamed of having a shower or a throne toilet with the with the million dollar views.

00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:41.119
Well, I know um I'll give a shout out Ryan McMahon, who was a big investor in Posh Outdoors, who listens to this show.

00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:49.759
He was on about um I remember we we we had Nico from um Topost Ventures on, and he was telling the story of how he nearly bought a nude campground.

00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:54.880
Ryan was on about maybe doing like a nude element to his glamping site when he when he does it.

00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.160
So maybe that's some inspiration for the for the nudist glumpers out there.

00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.920
Okay, so you traveled extensively, you gathered some ideas.

00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:05.519
When did this kind of first project idea come about?

00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:14.400
So basically January 2020, I started my property hunt and pretty quickly turned up a piece in near Bend, Oregon, near Smith Rock State Park.

00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:16.480
It was called Panacea at the Canyon at the time.

00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:20.559
And it was actually a pretty OG glamping property in the U.S.

00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:24.720
It had these, it was 40 acres high desert overlooking a river canyon.

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:29.279
It had seven beautiful tents on decks with open air showers and toilets.

00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:31.039
So I that's why I liked it.

00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:41.519
And um, and it was uh this couple had spent three years building this thing, and then they'd been operating it for maybe a year and a half, and then they were divorcing.

00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:46.559
That's when it went up for sale for like, you know, 1.4 or 1.6 or something.

00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.119
And I looked at it, chatted with a buddy.

00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.200
We went and toured the property, really liked it.

00:21:51.359 --> 00:22:02.000
Again, this was before I knew anything about zoning and permitting, but basically I went to them and I said, Hey, can we do a least, a lease to buy situation where basically we come in and we start operating it?

00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.759
And and the place was super run down, like they hadn't taken care of anything.

00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:10.559
They hadn't, it had been a year since they'd had guests, the property was in rough shape.

00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:22.880
So, okay, what if we come in, we invest a little bit in in the property, in the website, start to operate this thing, see what kind of demand we can get, and then we have first right of refusal.

00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.880
If anyone makes an offer, we have first dibs to purchase at that price.

00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:38.640
Our plan, because we didn't have any, you know, large amounts of capital, our plan was basically to go in and ideally operate it for one or two years, and one, prove to ourselves that this market was viable.

00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:43.200
And two, you know, I always thought that I wanted to work at Glantine, but I'd never actually done it.

00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:47.359
So I wanted to see firsthand for myself, hey, is this something I really want to do?

00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:55.920
And so the plan was to get one or two years of historical financials and then go try to get a business loan to purchase the rest of the property outright.

00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.640
That that was that was January 2020.

00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.799
So I wonder what's around the corner.

00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:05.279
So we basically, I literally remember where I was when we were having these calls.

00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:18.160
And um we basically we've been negotiating on the lease price and things, and they were on board and they were ready to sign, and then basically they said, Hey, we want a little bit more money on your monthly lease payment.

00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:25.839
And then Sean and I, my buddy, we'd gone back and we were discussing it, and then ultimately we decided we were gonna come up to what they wanted.

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.240
And then the next morning when we were supposed to have a call with them, COVID reached Seattle.

00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.359
And you know, it had like the first domestic cases in the US.

00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:42.000
And I remember looking at the stock market and like Marriott share value drops 15% in one day, and I was like, oh shit.

00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:47.519
And then so we postponed our call one more day, and then you know, looked at the news the next day.

00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.920
It's like airport shutting down, travel shutting down, Marriott dropped another 10%.

00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.720
So in two days, Marriott company value dropped by 25%.

00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:02.880
And I was like, this could be a terrible idea, you know, to get into leisure right now.

00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:03.599
Travel.

00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:09.039
So we we went back to them and we basically said, Hey, we'll honor our original offer.

00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:13.920
We're not gonna come up to your price, but we'll honor our original offer in light of this COVID situation.

00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:15.359
We don't know what's gonna happen.

00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.640
And they were basically like, nah, we're not gonna budge.

00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:20.720
So we ultimately walked away.

00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:27.279
Well, I always tell you that we're at different stages of our life, because I was just thinking, God, I really hope my uni exams are cancelled.

00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:28.240
Which they were.

00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:41.680
Um, but ACU I I I guess I guess you were, you know, looking back, you were glad that they walked away at that point, or that you walked away at that point, given I don't know how many, I don't know how long it was until you would have been able to open for guests anyway.

00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:46.160
I yeah, man, alternate universe of what that path would have looked like.

00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.119
I have no idea.

00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:48.960
I still don't know if it would have gone well.

00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:59.119
So this property is actually fascinating because I ended up shortly after this, I looked at like two or three other properties, put some offers together for JV's.

00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:06.319
I found this stunning property north of San Francisco, which would have been unreal, but we didn't I didn't know anything about permitting and entitlements.

00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.319
Not we were just gonna put it up and try to operate like a bunch of other people tried to do.

00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:11.920
Um, but it wouldn't have been legit.

00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:15.680
And those things fell through in May of 2020.

00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:17.759
I was like, oh yeah, COVID's gonna last a month.

00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:18.799
And then it went to a second month.

00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:23.440
I was like, it's only gonna last two months, and then it last well, three, and then all of a sudden I was like, okay, it's gonna last forever.

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:30.079
So we ended up starting this, because I wasn't working at the time and I was just at my parents' house.

00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:37.119
So I was just chilling and was in a pretty fortunate position to not really have any expenses and also not have a job.

00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:51.039
So I ended up starting this thing called Journey Vitae, which is at my MBA, there was a class called Life of Meaning, or like a pillar of your curriculum was a class called Life of Meaning, which was on all these reflective and intentional exercises, and it was hugely impactful for me.

00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:56.720
And then when when COVID happened and everyone was isolating, I was like, man, there's gotta be something we can do.

00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.960
You know, everyone has so much free time at home and they're trapped at home.

00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:09.680
Instead of just atrophying on like Netflix and video games, like maybe we can utilize this time to do something like constructive and productive.

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.000
Yeah, again, different stages of our lives.

00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.680
I was drinking and playing online poker with my friends every night.

00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.079
It was honestly some of the best times of my life.

00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:19.519
So good.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:28.240
And it was actually during that summer where again I was just living with my mum doing nothing apart from the aforementioned drinking and gambling.

00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.119
That's when started making started getting into glamping as well.

00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.880
So it you know kind of kickstarted that.

00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:34.400
Yeah, so you start to get it.

00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:36.000
What kind of what kind of gambling were you doing?

00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:37.039
Was it put like Texas Holding?

00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.119
Yeah, yeah, Texas Holding.

00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:47.279
We would just me and you know six six friends would just load up the laptops every night and just just shoot the shit and and play poker.

00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:53.119
And I think I kind of I don't think I've really played it since just because we did so much of it in that like three month period.

00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.039
But no, it was it was it was good fun.

00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:56.240
How do you how'd you do?

00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.680
Do you guys know who was like net up or was it no no ledger?

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.039
I was definitely net down.

00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:15.200
There were definitely some that were better than others, but there was one night where we'd certainly, you know, probably had enough beers where we were just not thinking rationally, and I ended up winning like 300 odd quid that night, which is stupid that that was the amount of money that was being thrown about.

00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:22.319
But but yeah, that was that was the big win, and then yeah, we we don't have to talk about the net losses, but they were good times, they were good times.

00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.519
Okay, so you were you were doing something far more meaningful and productive.

00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.920
Tell me yeah, tell us more about Journey Vita.

00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:34.160
Yeah, journey journey vitae is probably the the best thing that I've ever you know done or or got to be a part of.

00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:40.559
So I started it, I was feeling really isolated from all the amazing people I'd met abroad who were really inspiring.

00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:54.079
I was really missing my classmates who were entrepreneurs and doing really cool things, and I wanted to like reconnect with my energizers, and I saw people leading free yoga on Zoom or doing free pre-annal recitals on Facebook Live.

00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:00.240
And I was like, maybe there's something that I could do to give back to my community and also reconnect with my energizers.

00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:08.640
So I started Journey Vitae, and it's basically an eight-week program or like curriculum that I wrote, and it's 56 days of journaling.

00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:17.680
So every day is a different journal prompt, and then each week has a different growth project, and then you do it with a fellowship, which is about 12 people from all over the US and all over the world.

00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:31.920
And the very first thing you do is write your eulogy, and then you dive into gratitude letters, and you write a gratitude letter to someone who's helped you most, and then you dive into your relationships and who's giving energy and who's taking it away, and you end with walk through fear and then self-love.

00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:39.599
It was it ended up, much to my surprise, it ended up being like really quite impactful for people and powerful.

00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:46.400
And so I decided to do a second one, and then out of the second one, a bunch of people put their hands up to try to help and help lead.

00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:59.599
And then like we made a website and then started to create systems, and then we did four and five, and then six and seven, and then we had like a program for leaders and teachers, and we just we were used to do like six fellowships a year.

00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:03.119
Now we do I basically scaled it down to just do one.

00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:04.400
So we only do one a year.

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:14.319
But we've done 17 fellowships and we've 20 countries represented, and it's just humbling to hear what people got out of it and what they you know, what they put into it.

00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:21.359
People really showed up and and dug deep and like made these remarkable changes in their lives, and it was cool to get to like be witness to that.

00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:22.000
Awesome.

00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:22.640
That's great.

00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:24.400
And you you still do that now?

00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:25.359
Yeah.

00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.880
Yeah, I've mostly stepped back because it's it's it's busy.

00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.400
It's and it's all like a nonprofit, it's just it's donations, pay what you can.

00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:35.920
And so yeah, and what what came next after that?

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.519
Was it Sandy Vans or was it Sage?

00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:42.960
Yeah, so it was about a year of chaos, and then Sandy Vans and Sage kind of happened simultaneously.

00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.079
So I went to the glamping show in 22, I think.

00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.359
One, and it was my second time going.

00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.160
I had a chance to meet Sherry, the president of Sage.

00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:53.279
We hit it off.

00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:58.640
I told her about my weird and unique background, and she was like, We can barely keep up with demand.

00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:01.200
So I asked her if she needed to hire anyone.

00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:05.519
So I I was like, I'd love to work for with you and grow this team and grow this division.

00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:07.440
And she said yes, fortunately.

00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.680
And then started at Sage in October of 2021, I think it is.

00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:21.519
And then almost at that exact same time, Evan and Alan, who we just had on the podcast a couple episodes back, they were like, hey, we want to start a fan company.

00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:29.039
And I was basically trying to do both plus journey vitae, as well as I was doing some recruitment on the side to make money.

00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.000
And so for a two month period I was doing four jobs.

00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:36.880
And it was just it I hit a really big burnout wall.

00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:50.960
And yeah, I remember being in San Diego and I I had just been burning the candle at both ends and from my MBA to I was traveling and that sounds very leisurely, but I was probably moving to a new location every three days on average over the period of a year.

00:30:51.119 --> 00:31:01.519
So it was very intense basically trying to start all these businesses, the COVID chaos and I did that for a year and a half and then was doing Journey Vitae and then helping out with this like children's library in Wanda.

00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.160
That is doing really well.

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:13.519
So tell us a little bit about that business and your involvement in it.

00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:44.160
Yeah so you know Evan and Alan approached four friends and said hey we want to start a van company we want you guys to help us we want you to invest so they basically said we're trying to raise we want to raise$150,000 to build our first two vans and spend some money on marketing and advertising and they're like do you want to invest and do you want to work with us and they had one lead investor who did like 100k another another couple who did a small chunk and I basically invested 10K which is the same I invested in Posh.

00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:53.599
So I will be worth way more and so I I invested 10K and then I was supposed to work two days a week helping them launch.

00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:59.759
And their model is they do they buy old vans renovate them and turn them into kind of travel vans is that is that right?

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:21.279
Yeah so they they buy brand new sprinter vans which are around$70,000 and then they build them out with as luxury venture vehicles with kitchenettes, beds, AC, lights, cabinets, you know all showers, like all the amenities and then they sell them for anywhere from like$150 to$350 for some of the like insane builds.

00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:24.559
And yeah, that was a really good lesson in a lot of things.

00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.359
I ultimately after six months of trying to do these four jobs I quit the recruitment immediately.

00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:32.160
I scaled back on Journey Vitay and put that on pause.

00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:52.400
And then basically I was doing both sage and sandy vans and it was this it was probably the hardest business decision I've ever made in my life because it was basically do I work with my best friends in an industry that I really like or do I continue down this glamping path that I've been working on for three years and was my dream pursuit.

00:32:52.559 --> 00:33:00.640
And a big thing too was I wanted to move back to Oregon and get back, start to slow down and put down roots and stop moving and have community.

00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:05.039
And so because I could work remotely at Sage that was a really big factor.

00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:08.880
And I'd been working on glamping for so long and wanted to see it through.

00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:16.559
And one of the things was I still at least had ownership in Sandy Van so I could still go on that ride a little bit without being an active participant.

00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:22.640
So I ultimately decided to stick with Sage and go all in on that move back home and try to slow down a little bit.

00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:30.240
But to close the leap on Sandy Vans you're still involved as an investor almost looking as good as your investment in Posh and it's going well.

00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:38.960
Yeah yeah those so man we had them on the podcast recently and I just have so much respect for what they've done.

00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:40.000
It's actually insane.

00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:49.519
And a big part of me you know wonders like what if I took the red pill you know and stayed working at Sandy Vans and what what would that have been like and you know didn't do Sage and didn't do glamping.

00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.920
And it's an interesting idea because they have just been so impressive.

00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:02.720
They've basically I think they did almost almost a million revenue in their first year and they've basically doubled every year since so like they're about to turn four in a month.

00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:08.639
It'll be their fourth birthday and they might do five million in revenue which is nuts.

00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:13.519
And what's crazy too is that market got super saturated and is way down.

00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:21.199
So if you look at the RV sales across the country basically they're at they're the lowest they've been in a decade.

00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:26.239
They're 30% down from COVID numbers and they're below pre-COVID numbers.

00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:31.519
So the whole industry's just been taking a total hiding and Sandy Vance keeps doubling.

00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:38.719
In a in the industry that shrank 30% in sales they're doubling so it's a huge testament to their hard work and and creativity.

00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:43.360
Well it looks like hopefully you know how to pick winners so um hopefully it'll be two for two.

00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:48.079
Yeah you you committed to Sage tell us about the work you've been doing for Sage over the last few years.

00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:51.519
Yeah so Sage does appraisals and feasibility studies.

00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:59.119
To be an appraiser you have to go through a lot of school I didn't have that I just knew the clamping industry pretty well and I had a lot of financial experience through my MBA.

00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:05.039
So I basically came in and was overseeing our feasibility studies for the outdoor hospitality team.

00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.679
So that's campgrounds, RV resorts, glamping.

00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:25.840
First I was working with the clients and writing my own feasibility studies and then ultimately we hired a team and I was overseeing that team and doing some of the more some of the most of the reviews and harder parts of the feasibility studies working with the clients and then in the end I was just reviewing them as we continued to grow.

00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:44.159
But the I mean the really cool thing was just getting to get so many reps looking at different outdoor hospitality concepts and see I think my superpower in the glamping industry is that I've probably looked at more glamping websites and looked through their rate and booking calendars than potentially anyone else in the world.

00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:47.599
And that might that is that's going on your headstone.

00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:48.320
Yeah.

00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:54.239
I I think I've spent more time looking through glamping booking calendars than perhaps anyone else in the world.

00:35:54.320 --> 00:36:00.079
And I'd be so fascinating to see like a you know an iPhone stat on that to see if anyone's beat me.

00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:07.360
But essentially that led to if you're in the outdoor hospitality space you know that investment data is really hard to come by.

00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.559
It's not like other industries.

00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:14.400
But at Sage we were doing so much volume of looking at we were doing a lot of projects like more than anyone else.

00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:30.000
And so we had a lot of data that we were working with through them and a lot of you know every feasibility study you do a ton of market research on comps, all this info that we're putting into each feasibility study, why aren't we also putting that in a synchronized form and putting it in a library?

00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:33.440
So we started to do that and then we started to be really impressed by it.

00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:38.559
And then I reached out to KOA because they were doing they did their first glamping report.

00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:43.199
So I called them and was like hey you guys did a great glamping report.

00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.199
It was mostly based off survey data.

00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:56.480
Our team is working on pulling all this quantitative data on lights and amenities and growth would you guys want to partner on a project and much to my delight and a little bit of surprise they're like yeah let's do it.

00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:07.920
So I started working with Whitney Scott and Jenny McCullough and we published that you know Sage KOA glamping article in 2021 which was like a really cool moment for me to get to do that.

00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.559
And that's been kind of redone each year or the data reports have.

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:20.400
Yeah so sadly we didn't keep going with KOA because moving forward they just combined everything into one outdoor hospitality report.

00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:28.000
So they combined Campgrounds RV and glamping and they didn't want to be like Sage is the co-publisher for adding this piece in glamping.

00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:29.760
So they basically just did it all on their own.

00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:35.599
But we've continued to work with the data and collect it and found a lot more sophisticated ways to invest in it.

00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:41.760
And that's been basically kind of my pet project in the industry and we've worked with Nick Harshall.

00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:47.119
But he's a good friend of mine and he's you still get my second wrong side no kind of the worst.

00:37:47.280 --> 00:38:04.800
But with with other Nick's brain and kind of my knowledge of the industry we worked on some really cool data projects which is basically like Sage's big competitive advantage and we try to release as much of that as free information to the industry because we want to see more projects get funded and and grow.

00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:10.719
So we want to make as much of that public and available to people to gain and secure investor confidence as possible.

00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.079
Yeah it's been super helpful.

00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:28.960
I know Posh Posh has used uh sage data in in our kind of investment materials burgeon industry like like this you do need pioneers like yourselves to make it happen it's not like the hotel industry where there's these established players that have been doing this for years so it's super super helpful.

00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:32.320
So that's been your kind of pet project in in recent years.

00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:34.880
What does the what does the future hold for Connorswell?

00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:40.320
About a year ago I've just been struggling with burnout for like four years.

00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:55.679
It was the reason I left San Diego and I was like well if I focused all my efforts on Sage maybe I'll be able to avoid it but the the reality was that like Sage was so busy and growing and we were hiring and our feasibility studies are so in depth they're like 100 to 150 pages.

00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:59.599
And you know I was overseeing anywhere from like four to eight of those a month.

00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:04.719
And so I got super burnt out and basically just needed a break needed a break from work.

00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:26.239
And so about a year ago I stopped working with Sage on a full time basis and took a break for like five months and um and was working with some outdoor hospitality real estate investment firms, consulting with them, negotiating almost went on as a founding member of a couple those but couldn't come to terms on pricing and things like that or compensation.

00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:41.920
And then in January I was asking my my brothers a commercial real estate broker has been quite quite successful in general commercial real estate and I was asking his advice when I was negotiating my compensation package to help start a real estate investment fund.

00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:54.239
And after negotiating for quite a while he was I came in with your knowledge and network if you came and worked on my team you'd be in a way better setup and you know compensation situation than if you you know joined this team.

00:39:54.400 --> 00:40:04.320
So that kind of got the wheels turning and I was like oh well what if I did get to work with my brother and you know help people buy and sell you know these types of properties across the country.

00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:12.000
So basically I started to get my real estate brokerage license in April in Washington, which is where I live now.

00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:19.119
I moved into with my girlfriend in Seattle and started to get my real estate license and then I had a bunch of consulting projects come up.

00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:27.119
So people were shoulder tapping me to evaluate deals or help with recruitment and also helping Sage with a lot of feasibility studies as well.

00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:34.880
And so I kind of put it on pause but hopefully starting on Monday I'm going to pick back up getting my brokerage license to work with my brother who is licensed.

00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:58.880
So yeah if anyone has any interest or need in buying or selling an outdoor hospitality property like give me a call and Cameron's licensed and I can cut kind of support him and then in the next month or two I'll have my real estate license and that is the main direction that I'm going is to do commercial brokerage across the US for RV parks campgrounds and glamping projects.

00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.000
And so that's is that going to be the main gig do you think moving forward?

00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:06.159
It's I think it will ultimately be a little bit more supplemental.

00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:21.599
I have really enjoyed the consulting that I've been doing for folks and I felt like I've just adding a ton of value particularly through this podcast in my experience and the the groups that I've helped I've been like wow okay this was a really big win-win I think these people are off on a really good track.

00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.239
So I am interested in doing more consulting.

00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:32.880
So if folks are interested anything like evaluating deals or transacting and then another thing I can help with is recruitment which is what I was trained in.

00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:40.239
So like if you're looking for a general manager or a really important key position for your company I can help with recruitment.

00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:49.360
But all that to say you know Nick, you and I were interested in getting in on the real estate side and having ownership in the real estate of these businesses.

00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.719
And you know that's my goal as well and that always has been my goal.

00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:56.159
So I am I'm waiting for the right deal to come along.

00:41:56.320 --> 00:42:07.599
Ideally oh go ahead no no I was just um yeah when you finish I was gonna say how they get in touch well first of all tell me tell me about the dream deal if someone's listening what are you looking for?

00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:27.599
Yeah so so my dream property ideally it's in you know the closer to Oregon the better I am I'm definitely willing to look at things all over the the US but the dream deal would be something in the West and something that has a a high volume of units potential like you know 30, you know, anywhere from 20 to 50.

00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:37.920
I used to want to do tented structures and the more people I've interviewed and the more I've learned they sound really cool from a guest experience but they sound really hard from an ownership perspective.

00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:41.199
So my dream property is more of a landscape resort.

00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:45.039
Actually honestly it would be using do you guys call them spyglass cabins?

00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:52.719
The units we have at Skyridge the the kind of our name for them is looking glass but the the branding at Skyridge is Skyglass.

00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:53.039
Yeah.

00:42:53.199 --> 00:43:26.400
So I want a looking glass unit so for me the dream situation is a hardwalled unit that has one side or basically three sides of it are all glass ideally with accordion doors but that separate the bedroom slash the living area with an outdoor deck and patio and really trying to break down the barrier between indoor outdoor but still being able to close your windows, close your doors and be able to insulate and keep out unwanted sounds or critters and bears and things like raccoons.

00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:34.639
So yeah I'd like to use hardwall units, 20 to 50 units ideally within two hours of a major city is probably pretty big.

00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:39.599
I'm more interested in being next to a major city than I am being next to a tourism attraction.

00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:47.199
Um because I see this more as like a getaway from a city rather than like oh I'm going to a national park and I want to do this along the way.

00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:55.519
And the why for me for getting into this space is I I want more people to get outside and have meaningful experiences in nature.

00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:57.519
So they can disconnect from technology.

00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:12.000
I'm a curmudgeon I hate computers cell phones screen AI like I hate all of it and I just want to create a I want a haven where people can get away from all of those things um and and and live simply and presently and without notifications.

00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:26.800
Yeah no I think uh I think having that why is is really really helpful in when you're looking to do something like this as well just because you know it's no secret if you've listened to this or if you read my newsletter or whatever that it's it's bloody hard to to to set up these businesses.

00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:32.960
You know we both had occasions where we've both gone down the track of doing our own ground up developments and it hasn't worked out for whatever reason.

00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:39.199
And there are so many people who it hasn't worked out for and the ones who it has worked out for had to go through a lot of shit to to get there.

00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:49.280
And so you know having that why I think more than just you know I want to make money is is has been very helpful for those who have made it to kind of keep pushing through.

00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:59.360
Whether it's in your case you want to get people off their phones or if you want to create an amazing escape for people so that they can you know reconnect with their the the partner or their family or whatever.

00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:02.400
I think having that why is very very helpful in this industry.

00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:06.079
Remind me I I think I know what yours is but remind me of your why.

00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:21.519
Well that might be a problem I don't know if I do have one like I I I I'd kind of you know I I've talked about how hard it has been to get push up and running but you know I'd stress that that's with the help of three co-founders I haven't had to do any of like the on-site construction or anything like that.

00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:29.199
So I've only really done like half the half the journey is compared to you know an actual operator like you know Big Noel or Blake or as you'll you'll be doing.

00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:34.639
So I think mine was probably just like I've just done this for too long now I'm in too deep I'm not gonna bother turning it back.

00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:40.880
But what do you think my why is well I I I think I think yours is the journey rather than the destination.

00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:42.880
I think you'd really like the challenge of business.

00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:59.280
And I think glamping or outdoor is the mo like the most exciting vehicle for you to like experiment with that and be able to offer amazing properties and experiences for guests and like allow you to go go hard in the paint and in the business world doing something meaningful.

00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:29.440
Yeah yeah I guess yeah I enjoy the enjoyed the grind well enjoy is a strong word but I didn't mind the the grind and knowing that I was working really hard but I I don't think that's sustainable to be honest just to kind of just keep grinding and grinding without any kind of uh reason why I think it is easier and more fun now because we've got that site up and running it is real and you know you can do more fun things with your with your business partners but I yeah yeah going back to the original point is it is so much easier to do it when when there is a why because it kee gives you a reason to keep pushing through.

00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:39.199
So if anyone does want to get in touch about you know that dream property or if they want your services for consulting or brokerage or whatever it might be how do they get in touch with you.

00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:48.800
Folks can reach me at CJ Schwab10 at gmail is my personal and then the Sage email that I use is Schwab at Sageoutdooradvisory dot com.

00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:50.960
Or you can find me on LinkedIn and connect.

00:46:52.480 --> 00:47:01.199
So basically anything as it pertains Sage is super focused and specialized on feasibility studies and appraisals and they're the best in the industry at that.

00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:14.239
So if anyone has those needs basically we can go through Sage to do that and either like I'll hand it off to Sage or I'll work with you and be the consultant doing your feasibility study through Sage because they're the best and they have the data to do it the best.

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:27.760
And then if it's something that doesn't fall within that box or particularly brokerage services, so buying or selling a property or recruitment services or something that might be a little bit more abstract, yeah, give me a call.

00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:31.199
I'll see if I can help or point you in the right direction of someone who's smarter than me.

00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:37.599
I'm sure the the email address and the details will be in the description if they aren't then don't blame me because I don't call the shots anymore.

00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:47.920
So that's all I knew Connor is there is there anything else you'd like to say before we finish off yeah I think you know I love going to the glamping show because now I think it'll be my sixth or seventh year this year.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.320
And it it feels it almost just feels like a friends reunion at this point.

00:47:52.480 --> 00:48:01.599
And I just find the people in this industry to be really inspiring and people have different whys but they're a tend to really like and resonate with a lot of them.

00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:12.719
The you know the reason we put so much time and effort into this podcast is to to keep the industry growing and for me you know giving humans an amazing experience in nature ideally fosters more environmental stewardship.

00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:25.760
So we're there's more awareness around around protecting nature and and trying to work in harmony with it and experience it in harmony and celebrate it and make nature valuable from a you know commercial perspective.

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:38.960
And and I wanted to thank you Nick because the only reason I'm talking here on this podcast is because you know you've slaved away doing these recordings for three years and then graciously invited me to be a part of it.

00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:40.639
I'm just happy and honored to be here.

00:48:40.800 --> 00:49:01.199
And I want to thank you for creating this uh this uh this community and vehicle well thank you yeah you're right there was a bit of slaving away but it became a a lot easier when you came on board and you know you are you were the first person I called when I said I was thinking of stepping away and I was looking for someone to take over and um I'm so glad that you and Sherry are doing so and I know it's in great hands.

00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:08.400
Do keep listening it will it will continue to be great and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of growth so I'm uh I'm looking forward to seeing where you take it so thank you.

00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:12.960
And so the real question I think everyone's wondering is are you going to give us an update on your dating life?

00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:37.039
Oh god oh god oh no no I don't want to juke sit we've got three months left there's been there's been some activity but no no uh no new year's resolution of getting a girlfriend achieved just yet with some hot leads though the inch pipeline is full but uh yeah we'll see we'll see as the the the perfect ending note all right thank you my friend thank you very much thank you