March 11, 2026

Sarah Dusek Founder of Few & Far and Under Canvas

Sarah Dusek Founder of Few & Far and Under Canvas

Send a text We sit down with Sarah Dusek to explore how a six-suite, five-star safari lodge can fund rewilding, restore soils, and open access to wilderness without compromising design, comfort, or values. We trace the path from Under Canvas to Few and Far, and dig into pricing, inclusion, funding, and carbon goals. • glamping origins and the leap from under canvas to few and far • operational headwinds, capital stacks, and industry maturity • designing hybrid cliff suites with locally mille...

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Send a text

We sit down with Sarah Dusek to explore how a six-suite, five-star safari lodge can fund rewilding, restore soils, and open access to wilderness without compromising design, comfort, or values. We trace the path from Under Canvas to Few and Far, and dig into pricing, inclusion, funding, and carbon goals.

• glamping origins and the leap from under canvas to few and far
• operational headwinds, capital stacks, and industry maturity
• designing hybrid cliff suites with locally milled eucalyptus
• biodiversity of the soutpansberg and rewilding vision
• low-volume guiding and authentic wildlife experiences
• pricing model and nature has no price tag access
• sustainability as the floor, regeneration as the aim
• soil health, carbon sequestration, and fence removal
• the three ps framework for long-term balance
• scaling plans across 100,000 hectares by 2030
• curated global trips and independent hotel partners
• teams, grit, and staying power in tough markets
• ai for speed and personalization without losing human touch

Sarah's websites: 

fewandfarluvhondo.com

fandftravel.com

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We work hard to bring you the best insights from top experts in this space- FREE OF CHARGE, all we ask is that you consider leaving us a positive review so we can keep the momentum growing. To leave a review go to the podcast home page and scroll down past some of the first episodes - we appreciate you!

00:00 - Sarah Dusik Returns & Glamping Origins

03:20 - Under Canvas Exit And What Came Next

08:40 - Capital, Operations And Industry Headwinds

14:30 - Building Few And Far In South Africa

20:30 - Designing The Cliff Suites And Local Materials

25:20 - Vast Biodiversity And Rewilding Vision

30:10 - Low-Volume Luxury And Wildlife Encounters

34:00 - Pricing And “Nature Has No Price Tag”

39:20 - Access, Inclusion And Educating Through Comfort

46:00 - Regeneration, Carbon And Managing Landscapes

52:40 - Funding, The Three Ps And Long-Term Balance

58:30 - Scaling The Reserve And Future Camps

01:03:10 - Few And Far Travel: Curated Adventures

01:08:00 - Favourite Journeys And Independent Hotels

01:12:40 - Teams, Grit And Staying In The Ring

01:18:00 - AI As A Tool, Not A Substitute

01:21:40 - Big Goals: Carbon, Landscapes And Leadership

01:27:00 - Opportunities Ahead And Audience Invite

WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the Outdoor Hospitality Podcast.

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I'm your host, Carnegie Schwab.

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And today we are joined by one of my very favorite people in the entire industry and the entire world, Sarah Dusick.

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Sarah, welcome.

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Hello.

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Nice to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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Welcome back.

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I think it's your third time on the show.

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I don't know.

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Which makes me feel very lucky.

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I'm sure you're on quite a few shows and podcasts.

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I know you've become kind of a thought leader in the outdoors, outdoor and travel space, the sustainability and conservation space, you know, women in leadership, women in capital, because you're doing a lot of really exciting things.

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And well, if you don't know already, hopefully you know who Sarah is.

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She's kind of a household name, founder and pre-former owner of uh Under Canvas before she sold.

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And then also the founder of Enigma Ventures, which is focused on providing capital to women-owned startups.

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And then now she's working on Few and Far, which has a brick and mortar location in South Africa, as well as Few and Far Travel, which we'll get to dive into and learn a little bit more about today.

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But I think if I had to boil down to having one hero in this industry, it's probably you, Sarah.

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And you've done such an incredible.

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And I mean that.

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I'm not just blowing smoke.

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The what you've been able to accomplish both from a professional business standpoint, whilst also not compromising on your values, particularly around sustainability and conservation, and do both of those at 100%, or at least from my perspective and what I've seen.

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I think it's extremely impressive, you know, kind of like a lot like the Patagonia of the Glamview world is the way that I see it.

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And yeah, so welcome back.

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And maybe you could give us just we'll get into few and far in just a sec, but maybe you could give us just a quick, you know, two, three-minute update on Under Canvas and your role there.

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And if anyone wants to get the full story, they can go back and listen to your former episodes and then we can move into what you've been up to lately.

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Yeah, I um my husband and I founded Under Canvas back in 2009 when the glamping industry didn't exist.

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I know it's hard to imagine today, and there are so many glamping resorts and so many extraordinary places across the United States and beyond.

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It's hard to imagine that this was not, you didn't used to be a thing, but it really didn't used to be a thing.

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I remember it.

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And it really, the industry's really exploded over the last 15 years, and it's been really exciting to see.

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But back in 2009, I think the only other place that had like one or two tents was Claycott up in Clacwot, up in BC.

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And so we were really kind of the pioneers of this whole movement and of exploring would people pay hotel prices to stay in tents effectively or stay in really unique accommodations, and this idea of creating access to outdoor spaces in in new ways and pioneering sustainable and innovative, unique places to stay outdoors.

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And thus began the beginning of the outdoor industry.

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We didn't know it then.

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I remember the questions I was asking myself back then in in sort of 2009, 2010 was will and will anyone want this?

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Like, will anyone want to come and stay and pay us, you know, two, three, four hundred dollars a night to sleep in a tent in a field?

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And of course, you know, I was a little more sophisticated than that, but not much at the beginning.

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And I still remember being surprised at the demand the sort of the demand that the groundswell of demand there was for outdoor unique product.

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And uh, I guess that's really why the industry has evolved in the way that it's evolved, because there has been such a demand and a desire to get outside, get outdoors, and experience sleeping in unique places in unique ways.

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I love it.

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And and are you still involved at all with Under Canvas or have you have you totally?

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Yeah, I know I'm not.

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I stepped down off the board a few years ago now.

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They are on their own and doing really well.

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Um yeah, so uh we sold in 2018 and we stepped down off the board a few years after that.

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Okay, gotcha.

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And then what have you been focused on since then?

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Yeah, a myriad of things.

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But one of the things that has surprised me over the last few years was I was not planning on building another travel company.

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And um I had been growing and scaling under Canvas for about a decade.

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And as you well know, Connor, this industry is not for the faint of heart.

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It looks really easy, it looks really sexy, it looks like a wonderful lifestyle, but actually it's pretty tough.

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Hospitality is a tough business, uh, and then you throw in the outdoors and temporary kind of accommodations in the mix too.

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We had tents under canvas, so created a whole sort of myriad of challenges for operating a hospitality business that you know doesn't really exist with brick and mortar properties.

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So I thought when we were sold, when we sold we were done.

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But one of the things I realized was when you love travel and you love hospitality and you love creating, this industry is really hard to get away from.

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It's hard to leave it and it's hard to let it go.

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And so we are now building our second travel company, Few and Far, which I'll tell you all about.

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I'm sure we'll dig in there.

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But uh that is now consuming my heart and soul.

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I think this industry is as fun as it is hard.

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Agreed, and that's why so many of us want to be in the space.

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It's a really, really hard industry, but at the same time, it's really fun, it's really creative, and it's a really nice industry.

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I mean, when you're a part of this community, you and I met a few months back in Denver at the Glamping Show, American Glamping Show.

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And it's a really, really cool group of people who are involved in this space.

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So it's an amazing network, amazing community of people who uh are passionate about this space.

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It is, yeah.

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Awesome group of people.

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I mean, you know, tied together, grounded in purpose through the outdoors, or or showing guest hospitality are two good common threads that I think tie everybody together.

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And I and I think the ability to be creative in this space, it's not a one-size fix-all, one product, one way.

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There's there's so much creativity and so much variation, so many ideas that people can express in this space.

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Yeah, sometimes it feels like the market, you know, when you look at it compared to 10 years ago, and it's you might think, oh, it's it's so mature, you know, look at Zion or look at some of these other markets that have you know five to ten pretty established brands there.

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And it's like, oh, this the market has matured, but but really it's it hasn't.

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And if you compare it to short-term vacation rental or hotel, or it's it's just still the tip of the spear.

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And if you still look at the variety of those, you know, say five properties in Zion, like no two of those are really offering the same thing.

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You know, there might be a little bit of overlap in units here and there, but like by and large, it's a very different experience.

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And there's a lot of room for people to keep differentiating from one operator to the next.

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Absolutely, and carve their own brand and brand style and price point and target audience.

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And you're right, we really still are a minute piece of the hospitality industry.

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And really, only maybe only now is the industry just starting to become more institutionalized from a capital perspective and an investment perspective.

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And and that's really what enables an industry to grow, right?

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The the flow of capital into that space.

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And we're still at the very, very beginning journey of that.

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So yeah, I mean, I the industry has grown enormously, but it's still a baby.

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Hello, listeners.

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I wanted to share a quick story.

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I recently started to help a client set up their three properties, two RV resorts and one glamping resort.

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And they wanted me to help roll out their new tech stack.

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And at the center of that is the PMS or the property management software.

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These clients decided to go with storable new book, and thank goodness they did because the property management software is the nucleus of everything that you'll set up: your website, your social media, your bookings, your cleanings, everything.

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And it really handles the entire process from both the front customer facing side as well as the back end and coordinating cleaners and things like that.

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So it's, you know, setting up your photos and your pricing and your dynamic pricing and revenue management and your unit information and ensuring a smooth and customizable shopping cart experience to ensure high conversion rate with your customers.

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And then they have all these great automations.

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It can send texts and emails to your guests before they arrive on the day they arrived or after to get feedback and reviews.

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And you can track all your financial performance.

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And then it also helps with the back end and analyzing your data.

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I honestly couldn't be happier with the experience.

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If I call the new book helpline, I get an answer right away with someone who can help me like three or four standing meetings each week with different members of their teams to set up the different capabilities and softwares, or even using them to set up these property websites, or using them for digital marketing services and SEO.

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And honestly, it has been excellent.

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I so I chased down storable new book to ask them if they would be sponsors of the podcast because I really believed in their product.

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Fortunately, they were willing.

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So they are today's sponsors.

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So if you're unhappy with your PMS or you're launching a product and shopping, definitely give them a call.

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They'll give you a free software demonstration.

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And if you let them know that you came from the Outdoor Hospitality Podcast, they'll give you 15% off your new book signature subscriptions.

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Can't recommend storable new book highly enough.

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Go check them out.

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Thanks.

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What's your take on institutional appetite in the space?

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Obviously, a lot of big names have gotten in.

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I feel like I feel like outdoor hospitality has pulled back a little bit in the last two years, but so is pretty much everybody except for AI.

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And, you know, there's some there's some very serious roadblocks to development and operations in this industry with you know, just the development of spaced-out units is very hard and expensive from a cost per key.

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Particularly using Canvas units, you might run into challenges with building code and county jurisdictions and how you don't really have a categorization, which can make development even more difficult.

00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:27.519
And then from an operations perspective, you know, three main hurdles, which is the highly increased cost per room turnover.

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If you're in a remote area, the difficulty of staffing, and then just like the the seasonality of each location as far as potentially having really chunky demand.

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I know it was that way for under Canvas more than maybe any location, any brand.

00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:47.919
But like I guess as the market has now matured, you've exited and and and looked at it.

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Like, how do you think with some of those headwinds, I think really strong.

00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:54.480
Well, I'll let I'll let you answer.

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What do you think?

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I still think it's way harder than it should be from a from a capital stack perspective.

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And I have entrepreneurs who reach out to me literally every single week asking for help with getting funding.

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And my answer is the same over and over and over.

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You still have to be very creative in this space.

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You still have to build good relationships with your local bank, you still have to lever equipment financing, you still have to think out of the box.

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There's no there's no easy sort of one size fits all.

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This is how you fund a glamping location kind of business model.

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That still doesn't really exist, and there's still not a lot of capital being deployed into small scale one-off kind of operations.

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So I I think the capital space is is tough.

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And that really is an opportunity.

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I think there's a I think there's a a really great opportunity there.

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Sort of at the the front end of the market to sort of seed early stage businesses, if you like, to enable them to grow and develop and and that really that is that is still a tough space.

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Is that anything that you're considering doing?

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Or are you focused on your own thing?

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I definitely have my fingers in other pies, and I'm not really a real estate investor.

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And really, this is a is a variation on on real estate investing, I think.

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And so I would love to see more real estate investors take a little bit more risk, maybe for a little bit potential higher return, but that really kind of explore this space and create opportunities for themselves and the founders who are trying to pioneer new locations.

00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:56.639
Yeah, getting the seed capital for this industry is very tough if you don't if you don't have a big angel investor or have, you know, sitting on some savings oneself or maybe already owned the property.

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Certainly, it's really hard to get that.

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So hope hopefully, you know, there are some good strategies, whether it's like SBA loans or you know, you just you kind of have to have a scrappy entrepreneur's take and you find a creative way to do it and go, you know, sell people on the dream, you know, find someone who's really connected to you or your the land or the vision to get going.

00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:32.639
So can you tell me a little bit more about Quiver Tree and that morphing into few and far and kind of you know that journey and where you where those businesses are at today?

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Yeah.

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So after we sold Under Canvas, we moved down to South Africa and pioneered venture capital fund to invest in female entrepreneurs across the African continent.

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I'm a big believer in the fact that small businesses have a lot of power for changing communities, solving problems, really driving the backbone of economies.

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And I'm passionate about international development.

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So I started my career working in Africa 27 years ago now.

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That's a while.

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And um fell in love with the African continent, and Africa really inspired the business my husband Jake and I built when we built Under Canvas, as we reimagined the safari experience, basically.

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So we have been down in Africa for the last seven years working with entrepreneurs across the continent, helping them build, grow, and scale businesses.

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And then for the last few years, the hospitality bug bit us again quite hard.

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And we fell in love with an extraordinary property up in the very northern corner of South Africa, which is about 100,000 hectares of extraordinary wilderness, and realized it was it was calling to us to help put this location on the map.

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Uh, and we realized there was an opportunity to go further than we had gone with Under Canvas.

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And I I often talk about this idea of, you know, for for me, Under Canvas was about building a sustainable company, it was about creating access to the outdoors, it was it was about inviting people into a different way to experience nature.

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It was about developing and proving that it was possible to develop in a way that you don't have to use enormous amounts of water or power or leave a massive footprint or damage the earth by building on it.

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But what I have realized over the last five years is that being sustainable isn't the holy grail that I once thought it was.

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And before everybody tries to shoot me, I now think of sustainability as being like the floor, like the entry point as opposed to the finish line.

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And we started thinking about what would it look like to build, instead of building a sustainable company, build a regenerative company.

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And a lot of the work that we were doing with other companies across the continent of Africa was very much looking at how do we help build businesses that create impact, drive change, solve big world problems, affect millions of people's lives.

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How do we use business as a vehicle to be regenerative in our in our world, both environmentally, socially, and economically?

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And when we discovered this piece of property quite by accident back in 2021, we realized there was a it was a real extraordinary opportunity to help regenerate a vulnerable community and regenerate thousands of hectares of land that are extraordinary, extraordinary biodiversity.

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And how do we open up an area of wilderness for people to come and explore and experience and help rewild it, restore it, bring flora and fauna and mega mega herbivores back to it to make it what it once was.

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So that is what I am now doing.

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That's my day job.

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We are pioneering few and far, both from a location perspective and terms of uh we've got an extraordinary lodge set in an amazing wilderness area in South Africa that is being rewilded and restored.

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And we are also creating and curating extraordinary trips around the world to amazing outdoor places.

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Incredible.

00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:41.599
I did some research on the location earlier because I've spent some time up in South Africa, and this certainly is a region I've never been to.

00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:46.079
It is extremely remote as far as distance from any major city.

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So and I doubt there's a whole lot of hospitality or safari operations in this area.

00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.559
So I think the name Few and Far is apt.

00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:56.880
Yes, exactly.

00:18:57.039 --> 00:18:58.640
You're not gonna see many people here.

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You're gonna be one of a few, and you're gonna have gone far from where you came from.

00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:06.240
These I I recommend folks look it up.

00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:09.359
I'm you know, looking at Few and Far's website for the how do you say it?

00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:10.160
Levondo.

00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:13.039
Few and Levondo, L-U-Vondo.

00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.799
She's got some stunning aerial drone shots of the property.

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It's situated on this kind of forested mountain range, and these units are stunning.

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:31.200
They're looks like kind of a hybrid between hardwall and canvas.

00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.839
They are.

00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.440
They're a total hybrid, yeah.

00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:38.000
So they're tent tent-like, but with wooden frames and structures.

00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:38.640
Yeah.

00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:39.759
It's amazing.

00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:41.519
It's kind of, I don't even know how to describe it.

00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.160
Almost looks like a crashing wave a little bit as the structure.

00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:45.119
How do you describe it?

00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.400
Yeah, I think of it a little bit like a shell.

00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.799
They're kind of like a flamshell.

00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.480
Flamshell, yeah, exactly.

00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:57.759
They're they were kind of designed to sort of connect with the shapes of the mountain.

00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:05.440
And they sit on a on a cliff edge and look over down into the valley and then up into the mountain beyond.

00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.640
So they're pretty unique.

00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:12.640
I spent some time looking around the unit design, and I really believe that you hit it out of the park again.

00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.200
The uniqueness of the design, doing the hybrid of the soft and hardwall.

00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.559
Really, there's a huge emphasis on the outdoor deck area.

00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.200
So it looks like there's probably more square footage on the deck, maybe, than even on the interior of the unit.

00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:26.160
There is, yeah.

00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:27.759
We're it's very close.

00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.839
I think it's like about 70 square meters on the inside and 50 on the outside.

00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:35.920
So it's they're very, it's very close.

00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:38.160
There's a there's a plunge pool.

00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:39.759
Is there a is there an outdoor shower?

00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.240
Did I see that?

00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:41.519
Yeah, outdoor shower.

00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:42.319
Yeah.

00:20:42.640 --> 00:21:02.559
You use a lot of stunning locally produced products in the interior design and and the architecture, and kind of connecting the stay back to the local area, which I'm a massive fan of, both from the the storytelling as well as the impact on the local community, as well as the you know, lower carbon footprint for getting your products.

00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:08.240
Well, maybe, sorry, why don't you tell me about the unit and the inspiration and the story behind it?

00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:30.319
Well, one of the things when we first started exploring this idea of building the lodge, you know, other than sort of figuring out where we were going to put it on the mountain, one of the things I realized was that so many African safari lodges were utilizing and importing wood from Brazilian Amazon.

00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:36.720
Sustainably produced wood from the Amazon, but from the Amazon none nonetheless.

00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:44.000
And I was like, it's a pretty long way from the Amazon to the bottom of South Africa.

00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.119
And it just it didn't, that didn't make any sense to me.

00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.759
It didn't compute with like, why would you do that when there's so much wood here?

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:59.759
And then I we realized that there was sort of a particular hardwood that lasts a long time and and copes with being in um wilderness.

00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.000
Environments in Africa.

00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:19.599
But we realized that we had a local product, you know, a local, which is actually an invasive species on the mountain, a eucalyptus, and realized that if we heat treated it and manufactured ourselves, we could create a product that basically behaved exactly like Brazilian hardwood.

00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:43.359
So we spent about a year harvesting wood and working with local sustainable producers of eucalyptus very close to us and using some of our own invasive species from the mountain to harvest those and produce them in our own little factory that we built to produce all of the wood that we ended up using to build our own lodge, which was a monumental achievement.

00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:49.920
But at the same time, I mean, we created jobs, we had full capabilities then to design.

00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:56.160
I mean, you have alluded, Connor, that we've got a lot of beams, a lot of curves in our designs.

00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:05.759
So we're able to manufacture the product that we actually wanted and wanted to use, which was an extraordinary thing, and keep the carbon footprint down to an absolute minimal.

00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:07.680
Very impressive.

00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:20.400
And I think living up to your own your own reputation to be using finding and devising and creating your own local wood as well as like lumber mill in your backyard to build your units.

00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:23.119
Do you do you own all of this land outright?

00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:24.880
How does that part work?

00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.359
Yeah, so we have some amazing neighbors.

00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:37.039
The whole mountain range is about just over 100,000 hectares, which is about just over 250,000 acres, which is larger than Singapore.

00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.720
So fairly large area.

00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:52.960
We own about 10,000 acres, and and we utilize the lodge utilizes probably about 30,000 acres for traversing and exploring with our guests.

00:23:53.119 --> 00:24:01.759
I mean, I mean, and guests barely scratch the surface of the amount of places we can explore in a three or four, four-day time frame.

00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.079
So it's a vast area.

00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:22.799
But one of the things that we realized as we started meeting people who were involved with the mountain was that there was this land was unprotected, under threat from coal mining, being degraded, and that actually it was home to more biodiversity.

00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:26.960
The density of the biodiversity was even higher than in the Amazon.

00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:32.400
So critical habitat for the planet, and yet under serious threat.

00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:41.039
And so we realized we had connected with land that effectively we were all kind of hoping that one day it might be a national park in its own right.

00:24:41.200 --> 00:25:02.640
And that, you know, let's put it into protection, let's start removing all the interior fences to open up this vast wilderness area, and let's start restoring it and rewilding the areas that are degraded and protecting the areas that are still pristine so that we don't lose one inch of biodiversity.

00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.720
That is incredible that it has the same biodiversity as the Amazon.

00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:10.559
Is it rainforest or it's a myriad of habitats?

00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:22.000
So there's some areas of the mountain that are rainforest, there are some areas that are more arid, there's some areas that are more sort of desert-like, and so it's a it's a real mix.

00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:24.079
It's got like its own microclimate.

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:35.440
So we've got on one side of the mountain, you've got a species of yellow woods that only grow in that one particular area, and you've got some mango monkeys that are only found in that particular mountain range.

00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:42.720
And then on the other side of the mountain where we are, we've got 3,000-year-old baobab trees, which are ginormous.

00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:52.400
They're like the equivalent of the red woods here in the United States, but they're they're they're fat and round as opposed to tall, and they're just ginormous trees.

00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.400
So the whole area is very, very diverse.

00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:57.680
Hello, listeners.

00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.799
This is Sherry Halala, founder of Sage Outdoor Advisory.

00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.319
If you're launching an outdoor hospitality project like Lamping, we can help.

00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:06.640
We offer feasibility studies and appraisals.

00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:14.799
What that means is we look at your specific market and propose business offering and complete an in-depth analysis to make sure that your planned business will be profitable.

00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:22.640
Getting a second opinion on your proposal in forecasting financials is critical to understand before you spend years of your time and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.599
This is particularly important if you are looking to raise money for your project from a bank of private investors.

00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:33.279
They are going to want to see this type of deep dive analysis from an independent third-party specialist in the industry.

00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:45.839
We at Sage have completed well over 250 feasibility studies and appraisals and outdoor hospitality in North America in the last four years so we understand what it takes to bring a project from concept to reality.

00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:52.640
If this sounds like it could be helpful to you, you can go to our website, SageOutdoorAdvisory.com, and schedule a call with our team.

00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.319
While you're there, check out our proprietary glamping database map too.

00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:56.720
Thanks.

00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:57.920
Now back to the show.

00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:03.759
What's what's the like the business model for the property in terms of you know, starting?

00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.599
I'm guessing this is a phase one, and you're well, how many units are exist?

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.079
When did you start building?

00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.000
And how many units exist today?

00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:24.160
Yeah, we started building in 2023 and started building a road up and over the mountain and manufacturing all the wood that we would need.

00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:33.119
And then we we we were constructing in earnest throughout 2024, and we finally opened at the very, very end of 2024.

00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:41.599
We opened on Christmas Eve 2024, so we're just over a year old now, 12, 13, 14 months old now.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.799
Um it took us a couple of years to build.

00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:51.680
But we're we're really small, we are high, high touch, low numbers of guests.

00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:59.359
So we've got six cliff suites, which means everyone has their own private guide to explore the mountain.

00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:04.960
So you will never see another group or thousands of other vehicles while you are out.

00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:11.119
And I was I was on site just last week, and Jake and I were driving to dinner.

00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:12.960
We had dinner in the bush one night.

00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:21.119
Jake and I were driving out to go and meet all the rest of our guests and stumbled across a leopard like right there in the middle of the road.

00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.480
And I was like, and there's no one else here.

00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:49.680
It's just we watched this leopard for about 15 minutes, and she looked at us, and then she crossed the road, and then she led down, and then she looked at us some more, and then she crossed the road again, and and she was completely calm and relaxed and not bothered by us, but not obviously ravaged by 15 other corals trying to pull up and and see her at the same time.

00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.799
So it's an extraordinary place.

00:28:53.039 --> 00:29:06.319
It's like having your own private, vast wilderness area to explore that's packed with wildlife and giraffes and leopards and rhinos, and I mean, I mean, it's amazing.

00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:08.079
Um there's rhinos on the land?

00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:15.359
Yeah, on the southern, not on our land, but on the southern side of the mountain, there are white rhinos, yes.

00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:21.200
We we are hoping to reintroduce black rhino in the US term.

00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:41.440
The and to add a little context for the listeners, just from my own personal experience of doing safaris in different areas of Africa, I did the Serengeti and then Numgor and Goro Crater, which are two of the more well-known places, and I went and tourist low season in like February or March, and they were still packed, you know.

00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:46.160
It feels a little bit more like amusement park than like wild rat a wildlife safari.

00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:55.759
And yeah, it was obviously still a cool experience, but really, really was kind of weird for me to like, you know, yeah, you go see a lion and there's 15 cars parked around it.

00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:58.079
Yeah, exactly.

00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:07.359
So it's it's a very, you're right, it's a very unusual phenomenon to be in a wilderness area and and just you to be, you know, just you be there.

00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:23.440
So we're trying to create sort of like a very pristine, low, low volume, high standard experience that really emphasizes protecting the mountain and at the same time creating very extraordinary experiences that you can't get anywhere else.

00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:28.079
Who is your target customer and what kind of nightly rates are we talking about?

00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.519
Yeah, well, funny you should ask.

00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:45.839
We are twelve hundred dollars per person per night, which actually for the for the created experience that it is, is it's very reasonable from an African perspective.

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:58.799
And that's fully inclusive with private guides, all your meals, sleeping out under the stars, extraordinary wildlife viewings, hiking, biking, swimming in waterfalls.

00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.319
I mean, you name it, you can do it.

00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:02.000
So that's where we're at.

00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:14.400
But and was one of the things we pyred at uh pioneered at under canvas was this idea that I don't believe the outdoors is for the 1% only.

00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:26.960
I don't believe that that we have to limit those with a big fact checkbook to being able to experience some of the world's most extraordinary places.

00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:41.680
So we have uh since sort of the middle of last year, um, we have a nature has no nature has no price tag campaign, which allows anyone to fill out an application form and tell us why they would like to come.

00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:54.079
Yes, yes, and I review those on a weekly basis, and you know, we are not no resort is ever 100% full, 365 days of the year.

00:31:54.240 --> 00:32:05.680
There is always capacity for unused rooms, and so we allow a proportion of our rooms to go to people at a price that they tell us they can afford.

00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:12.480
And so people effectively pay what they can to come and experience this extraordinary place.

00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.119
I yes, you read my you read my mind.

00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:21.279
And it how does it work for dates that they can do that?

00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.200
Or yeah, so basically, people make us their offer.

00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:40.720
It's a bit like you know, when you bid for an upgrade on an airline or something, you know, you're you say this is what I'm prepared to pay, and you say, you know, this when you would like to come and the the price that you can pay, and and we look at those dates and go, does that work for us?

00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:42.480
Does that does that price point work for us?

00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:43.599
Can we navigate that?

00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:45.839
Do we have genius?

00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:51.599
And um, and I try and say yes as much as I humanly possibly can.

00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:56.960
I think we had uh how much did we do last year?

00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:59.440
How much notice do you give them?

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.640
Oh well, that the traveler.

00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:11.359
Yeah, I mean we we can handle short notice, obviously, but depending on where the traveler's coming from, they they often need a little bit longer in time.

00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:23.440
But yeah, I mean we did over a hundred, we we accepted over a hundred offers last year for people wanting to come and stay with us through that campaign.

00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:28.799
God, that is what a beautifully done integration.

00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:41.839
So I had a similar idea because I I kind of run into the same conundrum as you, where obviously the most profitable business is always gonna be usually gonna be in the luxury sector and really catering to the 1%.

00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.279
It's much easier to run a profitable business that way.

00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:52.640
But then you run into this conscious issue where you don't want to make these experiences inaccessible to certain groups.

00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.279
Absolutely.

00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:11.679
And the way I'd always imagined it, the solution that I was gonna do in my head with my future resort was first weekend of the month or Tuesdays, or where like a certain period would be, you know, something you might call locals only, or you know, folks could apply to come and stay on those dates to come stay at cost.

00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:35.679
But the way that you are doing it is much better because it allows you to be kind of more nimble and almost integrate it into revenue management, where you can let people know, you can look at your calendar and say, you know, utilize empty rooms to so at least people are paying something and you're also able to like not waste a room.

00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:39.920
There's so it's just like a beautiful way to work to get both things.

00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:44.000
And those guests become extraordinary brand advocates, right?

00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:50.639
With you know, being willing to tell your story wherever they've gone and you know, share with their network and their friends.

00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:59.519
And I think there's something very powerful about not limiting access to extraordinary places.

00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:14.320
I I think nature is for all of us, and and and actually it's gonna take all of us to care for our planet and to move the needle on some of the big issues that our planet is is facing.

00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:31.119
And I know, and you know, Connor, that when we experience the outdoors and we get outside, we're so much more likely to care for the planet and be mindful about the things that impact our planet if you've experienced it and if you've fallen in love with it.

00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:37.519
And um, and that's that's the magic, that's the sort of the symbiotic magic.

00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:41.039
It's gonna take all of us at all of our price points.

00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:47.280
You know, I say to our guests all the time, if you can pay more than I'm charging, please do.

00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:56.800
Like if you can help us invest in the conservation work that we are doing and you can afford to pay more, please do.

00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:02.719
Because, you know, this is nature has no price tag, but nature is actually priceless.

00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:08.159
But the price tag of actually looking after nature is extreme.

00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.039
It's it's it's a very, very high bar.

00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:18.960
We'll spend over a million dollars a year on managing landscapes and rehabilitating land.

00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:26.079
And I can spend even more than that if I'm if I'm reintroducing wildlife and managing wildlife.

00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:31.920
So really, I mean, it's it's it's a big it's a big it's a big impact.

00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:33.840
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot to be done.

00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:35.920
There's a lot of work to do, and that takes money.

00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.079
What what is is Few and Far a nonprofit or a for-profit?

00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:55.920
We are a for-profit organization, but we're just setting up our our non-profit profit arm to also enable people to help invest in specific projects that we've got on the reserve to to help us preserve and protect.

00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:57.920
So we're just in the process of doing that.

00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:01.119
But yeah, we are a for-profit organization.

00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:23.519
Whenever people, going back to what you were mentioning earlier, like whenever people ask, or I'll just share on my own accord, is like my why for being in the glamping or outdoor hospitality space, is that I believe that glamping makes the outdoors more accessible to a demographic that has likely not connected with nature in a meaningful way.

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:34.400
And by showing people a wonderful experience in nature, you're thus inspiring and you're thus fostering more environmental stewardship.

00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.320
And that's something that I've always believed.

00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:38.639
Every once in a while, like I have some doubts on that.

00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:41.199
I'm like, is that is that really moving the needle?

00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:42.159
Is it doing enough?

00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:47.840
And I'd be curious, like, as someone who did that under Canvas, like what's of your opinion on that?

00:37:48.239 --> 00:38:04.639
Well, I I know I got 10 years of, I don't know, 15 years of data that says we know that whole demographics of people now will experience the outdoors when they wouldn't have experienced it before.

00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:31.920
And I'll tell you a funny story because in my naivety in my early days of under canvas, I had not clicked, and this may sound very obvious and very blonde, but I had not clicked that camping was a white phenomenon, like racially, um, that camping is a white man's endeavor.

00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:56.960
And I had I I spent my early career in Zimbabwe, in Africa, and my host family that I lived with came uh moved to Canada a decade or so ago, and I invited them to come down and stay with us at our glacier camp just south of the Canadian border in Montana, and and said, come and stay at our amazing new camp.

00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:08.159
And the husband of the family, he took me aside and he said, Sarah, I have to tell you this, but black people don't camp.

00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:11.360
And I was like, What are you talking about?

00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:12.400
Why not?

00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:16.159
And I said, Well, you must, and I insisted.

00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:24.639
They came on down and then he said to me, Okay, Sarah, black people still don't camp, but this isn't camping.

00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:29.280
This is this is something completely different, and I can do this.

00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:35.119
And it was it was like a light bulb moment for me that was like, oh, we can be a bridge.

00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:38.480
We can be a bridge between two worlds.

00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:46.480
And to be fair, I am a white woman who does also not want to camp and does not want to sleep on the ground and you know, like have to go potty in the woods.

00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:48.239
I don't want to do that either.

00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:57.840
But you know, that's when I realized clamping is a bridge, it's a bridge for people who who would never think of going camping.

00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:04.000
And and to be fair, there's a whole demographic of white people who would not even think of going camping either.

00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:08.960
But culturally, you know, there's a subsect of people who love to camp, right?

00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.280
And who get the outdoors and who love it.

00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:14.960
But there's a whole swath of people who don't.

00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:34.639
Um, but yet being exposed to it in a comfortable way, you've got your meals served, you've got plush beds, running waters, showers, flushing toilets, and you can sit around a fire pit at night and see the stars and sit in silence because there's no noise.

00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:43.920
Like, and you can watch, you know, wildlife and see trees and smell the air and like like go for walks.

00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:46.719
I mean, then people get it.

00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:48.400
Then people understand it.

00:40:48.559 --> 00:41:00.719
And I I know in the early days of under canvas too, we well, and still with under canvas, we have pool chain showers in the in the shower, and that is a way to limit water usage.

00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:16.480
And we nicknamed a whole bunch of water saving activities that we have at Under Canvas as intentional inconveniences because it's definitely an inconvenience to have to pull a lever to get the water to run to take a shower.

00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.559
And people said to me at the time, you will not get away with that.

00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:30.159
People will not buy that, they will not be happy spending several hundred dollars a night on your tent and have to pull a lever to get the water to run in the shower.

00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:41.360
And I said, Well, I'm gonna do it anyway, because I want people to be in convenience and I want to teach people about water conservation.

00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:46.239
I want, we had many camps in the desert, we have very limited amounts of water.

00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.239
I said, it is absolutely essential.

00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:52.800
This is the only way we can build a hotel here if we use minimal amounts of water.

00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:59.119
And under canvas resorts still typically use about a tenth of the water of a same-size hotel, a regular hotel.

00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:12.960
And I started to realize this is a way for us to educate and communicate and show our guests you can still have a wonderful lavish experience without having to use gallons and gallons and gallons and gallons of water.

00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:32.960
And so, you know, for me, this industry can take people out of their comfort zones, it can allow people to fall in love with the outdoors, it can also allow us to educate and teach and communicate at things that you know you wouldn't necessarily be exposed to in any other way, certainly wouldn't be exposed to in a regular hotel.

00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:35.119
But here we are doing something different.

00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:38.000
We're all out of our comfort zone ever so slightly.

00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:42.239
And here's an opportunity to tell stories about water.

00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.639
In Moab in the desert, there's cryptobiotic soil.

00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:54.000
Like there's like a like a thin crust on top of the soil that if you step on it, it's like a microorganism.

00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.000
And if you step on it, you kill it.

00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:59.440
And that microorganism is thousands of years old.

00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:12.559
This is an opportunity to teach about like why that that microorganism is so critical for keeping the sand and the soil in place so that we don't just have one massive sandstorm day after day.

00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:22.079
Like nature has been doing its work for thousands of years, and and it's our job to understand it and learn from it and protect it and care from it.

00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:33.760
And I I think this industry is a huge opportunity for for doing that and for crossing borders and allowing people to experience things and learn things they would never have known otherwise.

00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:49.119
And it's a whole it's ironic that now, in my opinion, the future of travel is people getting back to experience nature in a way we did 500 years ago.

00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:49.760
Yeah.

00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.000
And it's ironic, right?

00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:57.119
It's ironic that we we want to go back to doing primitive things.

00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:18.559
And I I agree, I I think our technological World drives us actually to want to disconnect and to want to do something that's so primitive and so basic and connect to an outdoor world that wants us to breathe, wants us to rest, wants us to experience it in a completely different way.

00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.760
Do you have Wi-Fi at the property or no?

00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:24.159
In our South Africa property, we do.

00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:27.679
Yeah, because there's very little, there's no phone signal.

00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:37.039
And we know when people are a long way from home and they're in the middle of the wilderness, having no signal whatsoever is and very unnerving for people.

00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.559
We start to see the left eye start to twitch, you know, if you can't get online.

00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:45.760
Is it is it available in the units or in like the the just in the central area?

00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:57.760
In the central area, and we most recently put it in the units so that actually the guests could also communicate easily with the staff on WhatsApp, and it was easier to manage service that way.

00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:07.119
But people, it's it's slow internet, it's not, you know, it's not super fast, it's not, you know, it's not like streaming, streamingable.

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:13.199
But it, you know, you can you can send messages and emails and you know contact people.

00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:15.599
How's demand been in the first year?

00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:19.519
And how are you getting the word out from like a marketing and advertising perspective?

00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.480
Because obviously you're creating demand.

00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:31.440
I'm guessing you would know this market better than me, but I'm guessing you're creating demand in the middle of nowhere, which is always a tough, uh, a hard, a hard battle.

00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:33.039
Yeah, it is tougher.

00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:38.719
And you know, and that's one of the reasons Ender Camus was so successful is we picked high traffic destinations.

00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:43.760
And I'm going against all my advice that I've ever believed.

00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:48.000
So it's slow, it's definitely slower.

00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:54.239
You know, building, we not only have to build a reputation as a brand, we have to build the reputation of the destination also.

00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:55.760
So that takes time.

00:45:56.079 --> 00:46:05.920
But one of the things I have realized about the African safari market, it's been really interesting, sort of to me, coming back to the home of glamping, if you like, you know, the birthplace.

00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:10.960
The cradle of man and the cradle of glamping.

00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:12.000
Yeah, exactly.

00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:13.920
It's kind of the genesis of all of it.

00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:23.199
But one of the things I've realized is that the African safari experience largely hasn't evolved or changed for decades and decades and decades.

00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:32.800
And one of the things we wanted to do was evolve it and move it on and reimagine it again, just like we reimagined it originally for under canvas.

00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:36.239
How do we reimagine it again in the home of safari?

00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:46.239
And one of the things I know that is really, really important is just creating extraordinary experiences and giving people an opportunity to be active.

00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:52.559
And one of the hard parts about being on Safari is you get trapped in a vehicle for many, many hours just trying to find wildlife.

00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:54.320
And so we don't do that.

00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:07.360
We are lucky enough to allow our guests to walk, to hike, to bike, to swim in waterfalls, to sleep out under the stars, to go on game drives, yes, but but do so many other things at the same time.

00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:20.960
So I very much believe what we are creating in the Sopensburg Mountains is an adventure travel slash safari experience, which is a very unusual thing actually to experience in Africa.

00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:25.760
So that's a very, I think it's a very unique proposition.

00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:33.840
And if you like being active at all and you like wildlife, then we are an extraordinary place to come.

00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:41.280
I 1000% see the value, and I think you're on the verge of getting an avalanche of demand.

00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:56.239
I imagine that this is a PR dream in the sense that, you know, and social media, but just like, I don't know, you're you're focused on the product and the experience, and that will do the heavy lifting in the end.

00:47:56.320 --> 00:48:00.639
But I'm not surprised that it's a little bit of a slower ramp than being outside of the Grand Canyon.

00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:02.000
And it's a long way, right?

00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:06.320
It's a long way to travel from the United States, it's a long way from Europe to travel to Africa.

00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:10.000
So it's a big long haul, um, long haul trip.

00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:14.400
Well, I I'm gonna be super curious to check in in a year from now and see how things are going.

00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:27.519
But I would imagine that you are well positioned at where the industry and you know human human travel preferences headed, I think perfectly.

00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:30.719
So I definitely a little ahead of my time, Connor.

00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:34.880
So it's takes the universe a little bit to catch up to me.

00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.679
I'm giving it a full buy rating.

00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:39.280
Invest, invest.

00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:43.920
Yeah, well, in 10 years' time, everybody will have built resorts like we're building now.

00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:51.440
But yeah, we're we're at the front front end of that again and and really creating a very differentiated product.

00:48:51.920 --> 00:49:06.000
But what I know to be true for travelers worldwide is that we are obsessed now with having experiences and that we're we're gonna spend more money on experiences than we are on anything else in our lives.

00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:23.360
And we are even seeing it, you know, I mean, part from the fact that homeownership is now very difficult to achieve, we're seeing the uh a younger generation being more interested in travel and having experiences than they are in in acquiring assets.

00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:38.800
So I do believe experiences are the new assets, and um, I know even just as a mom of two teenage boys now that I value making memories and I always have valued making memories with my kids more than anything else.

00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:40.159
And that's what we're about.

00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:44.639
We're about creating extraordinary experiences in wild places.

00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:50.000
Yeah, and the one of one, the one of one experiences that are irreplicable.

00:49:50.400 --> 00:50:09.280
And I think what you're creating there, as far as the land, as far as the experiences with the well, not only the the opportunities for safari and game drive, but also mountain biking and things like that, which is very unique, and down to the units, is all highly unique.

00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.360
And that's always something that you've been very good at.

00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.559
And you built and designed all your own units at Under Canvas, right?

00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:16.639
Yeah, and now you're doing that again.

00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:37.679
What what what is as you've launched into Feunfar, what is the same as Under Canvas and what is what is decidedly different about how you're approaching it this this time or with with this brand, or you know, either from like a like a business, you know, business model standpoint and also from a guest experience standpoint?

00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:46.000
Well, the most obvious thing is that I we very intentionally built a four-star brand with Under Canvas.

00:50:46.800 --> 00:51:00.159
Now we're very intentionally building a five-star brand, and I'm very interested in creating gastronomic experiences, active experiences, wildlife experiences.

00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:04.400
But you're right, what's the the design focus is the same?

00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:10.639
Our philosophies have just evolved, as I said, sort of from where we left off.

00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:23.039
So this sort of like the next iteration of our own thinking about sustainability and local and being regenerative, that is all an evolution from where we've been in the past.

00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:29.599
And thinking long term, this is this is the other sort of new thing for me.

00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:34.719
We weren't ever actively land managing with under canvas.

00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:47.119
We were we were taking raw wild landscapes and trying to do them no harm effectively by not you know creating a massive footprint on them, trying to leave no trace as much as possible.

00:51:47.360 --> 00:52:02.960
But now I'm actively thinking long-term about managing and protecting wild spaces and how we utilize hospitality as an asset and a way to do that.

00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:14.079
And so we're navigating carbon carbon projects and restoration projects and wild habitat restoration and rewilding.

00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:21.679
And so all of that is sort of another sort of next iteration of what we're doing now that we've not done before.

00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:28.480
Well, what could you tell me a little bit more about what that looks like as far as the carbon sequestering and the rejuvenation of the land?

00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:34.159
I know you mentioned cutting down, cutting down fences to reintroduce, you know, big big herbivore migration.

00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:35.360
What else?

00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:40.639
It means actively managing the land to sequester carbon.

00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:53.599
So what I have learned in the last year, and I am not, I would not consider my scientistself a scientist by any stretch of the margin, but what I have learned is our soil has so much power.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:07.519
And that we have a 20 billion ton excess carbon problem in our atmosphere, and that actually we need to do everything we can to sequester, like pull down more carbon from our atmosphere and trap it in our soil.

00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:19.199
Nature is extraordinary in that nature has all the capabilities to sequester all the carbon that we will ever need to sequester.

00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:22.079
Nature can do it all.

00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:26.239
Nature just needs a helping hand to be able to do it all.

00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:40.000
And what we've discovered from the land that we are now actively managing is that after scientific research, some of it is considered in pristine condition and some of it's considered in highly degraded condition.

00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:45.360
And what that means, whilst it still might look wild, it might mean that nature's out of whack.

00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:55.599
So it might mean we've got invasive species that have taken over, or you've got like one species that is dominating and blocking out a whole variety of other species.

00:53:55.760 --> 00:54:03.119
So maybe that's killed off the grass or killed off a certain type of flora and fauna that should be in that spot.

00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:29.039
So what it means is we're actively trying to restore grasslands, actively trying to nurture the soil to enable it to capture more carbon, restore sort of microorganisms, and bring back things that should be there and take things away that shouldn't be there and allow it to become its wild, pristine state.

00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:31.039
And that actually requires management.

00:54:31.119 --> 00:54:42.239
And any land that's been disturbed by man in any way will require management to bring it back to how it actually should be.

00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:52.639
And if we can do that and we can nurture the soil, we can sequester more carbon and capture it in the soil and solve some of our big climate problems.

00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:55.039
Ah, I love it.

00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:57.440
Thinking very big too.

00:54:57.679 --> 00:54:58.559
Small and big.

00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:01.280
Small and big all at the same time.

00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:04.880
And that's and that's the same with sort of short and long all at the same time.

00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:09.519
It's like, what do we do today that's going to have an impact for a hundred years from now?

00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:11.920
You know, what happens if we do this?

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.760
And you know, what does that mean for generations to come?

00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:18.880
How did you fund View and Far?

00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:22.880
Is it is it did you take investor money, banks self-funded?

00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:35.840
Yeah, we've got a little bit of bank funding too, but yeah, largely all self-funded.

00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:37.039
Amazing.

00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:37.920
Good for you.

00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:54.559
How are you how do you balance the needs of the land with profitability or potentially like well, maybe I'll start by what is your plan for the property?

00:55:54.800 --> 00:56:00.800
Is there a long-term vision in terms of unit count or amenities or like revenue or anything like that?

00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:03.599
What's the future look like for that, for the Levando property?

00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:09.440
Yeah, I I think about three Ps, which for me are people, planet, and profit.

00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:12.800
And they're like having three legs of a stool.

00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:18.079
And if one leg is out of whack, you're gonna fall over.

00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:24.800
And I and I think really healthy, productive businesses have to think about profit.

00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:29.440
They have to, you know, if you don't build a profitable business, you're not gonna last very long, right?

00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:32.000
So they're not they're not sustainable.

00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:46.000
So you have to you have to have some profit in the mix, but you also have to have people in the mix, the stakeholders, whether that's local, your local communities, your employees, your shareholders, your guests, guests are stakeholders too, right?

00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:47.360
And then the planet.

00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:51.519
How how are we investing in the planet through this business?

00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:54.239
Like what are we doing to sustain our our world?

00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:05.360
So I think about those three legs, and I think about you know, keeping them in balance is hard, but that's that's the challenge if we don't want to fall over.

00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:17.119
I think all three of those things have to be navigated and managed accordingly for a business to I think that's I think that's a sign of a business, a real business succeeding.

00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:19.760
Very succinctly articulated.

00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:23.199
I think there's all these different components.

00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:29.599
I feel like you and I sh share a lot of the same values and vision for this industry and properties that are like this.

00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:34.719
And then there's all these ideas that I've been kind of marinating on and mulling around in my head for years.

00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:39.199
And then to hear you articulate them, I'm like, oh yeah, that that's a way better way to put it.

00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:40.719
Yeah, the three Ps.

00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:42.639
Yeah, the three Ps.

00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:46.079
I I I I tell you, Kana, I'm a simple fan of gal.

00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:53.760
And so I I need it in sort of bite-sized, easy chunks and an easy way for me to think about it.

00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:59.440
And if I can think about it in an easy way, the chances are then maybe I can make it happen.

00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:08.719
And I think sometimes that's the hard part when we think about, oh, we've got to do all these big initiatives and we've got to drive change, and we've got to, we've got to do this, and we've got to do this.

00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:11.039
Like it can all be a bit much, right?

00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:19.920
But actually, if we can boil it down to sort of some very simple principles, then I think it's easier to execute on.

00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:29.199
The and what did you call the program as far as the making this the units more accessible for like a application price point?

00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:29.840
What do you call that?

00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:32.480
Oh, the nature has no price tag campaign.

00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:34.000
Nature has no price tag.

00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:34.400
Yeah.

00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:39.599
Another great, another great implementation of that awesome idea.

00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:41.119
That's a huge win-win.

00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:53.280
And I was gonna ask you how do you strike the balance between you know profit and planet in terms of you know making financial choices and looking to the future?

00:58:53.360 --> 00:59:12.960
And I I might kind of guess your answer, and and that is like you you find ways that are that are win-win that are good for both, which kind of ties into how you the places have no boundaries or the the the the low-income thing, it's like, hey, we're we're making this more accessible while also filling rooms.

00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:17.679
And so, anyways, didn't mean to answer for you, but uh how's that journey, the balancing that?

00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:19.920
That's that that's it in a nutshell, really.

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:27.440
And and obviously, we all know for those of us who are in this industry, when you open a property, it's not profitable on day one.

00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:29.519
I mean, that would be a miracle.

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:30.800
That's not normal.

00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:47.840
So so we know that when you're open when you start something from scratch, you're on a journey, you're on a ramping journey of growing and scaling something, and you know, and how long something takes is you know, can can be more or less challenging depending on your demand.

00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:53.920
But I think about those those same things with people on planet too, right?

00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:08.800
If my my profitability is gonna take time, my planet work is gonna take time, and my people work is gonna take time, but I'm gonna set the the bar of where I'm going and work towards that.

01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:11.119
And Rome's never built in a day.

01:00:11.360 --> 01:00:27.679
But if I'm allowing all those all those things to be things that I'm actively working on all at the same time, and I can't leave one leg behind, they've all kind of got to be growing and moving forward, then that's kind of how I think about it.

01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:33.519
I I don't agree with well, we'll and this is this is what a lot of businesses can do, right?

01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:41.679
It's like say, well, when we're profitable, we'll we'll give some of our funds away, or we'll do X, Y, and Z that's good.

01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:46.079
But actually, it's really hard to retrofit something, right?

01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:56.800
If you are exploitative or you, you know, you make bad decisions all along the way, it's really hard to then just turn that around with one good decision, right?

01:00:57.039 --> 01:01:00.320
So you so you have to kind of, you know, the same with people, right?

01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:10.079
We have to we have to build culture and build ways of being for our stakeholders, employees, guests, shareholders, communities.

01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:12.239
We have to build that in from the beginning.

01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:20.320
And if you build it in from the beginning, it's a whole lot easier to do than if you try and kind of think about patching it on later.

01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:22.400
That's hard, that's much harder.

01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.440
Yeah, and it's and I love that take.

01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:50.079
And it doesn't have to be a choice between one or the other, like maybe thinking your your tripod and metaphors, a really good comparison with the Venn diagram, where it's like you have people, people, places, people, profit, planet, and finding, you know, how to run a business that is in that central area that overlaps and serves all three, which looks like you're executing beautifully on so far at at few and far.

01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:52.800
Profit's definitely lagging.

01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:54.800
Takes time.

01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:55.760
It takes time.

01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:56.480
Yeah, exactly.

01:01:56.639 --> 01:01:57.599
It all takes time.

01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:13.760
What is I think doing things very intentionally and thoughtfully to start, like you have that slower ramp, but I think you make that up on the back end or in the long term when competition tries to come in and you it's harder to reproduce.

01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:15.599
That's exactly it.

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:29.599
And I and I do think that businesses with really strong values at the heart have the potential for creating so much more value and for going a distance, right?

01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:36.239
Being able to stand up to macro and micro events that happen that we can't things that we can't control.

01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:49.599
But it's it's the you know, the the robust businesses that have got backbone to them that are much more likely to be able to stand up to scrutiny and stand up to competition.

01:02:49.840 --> 01:03:00.079
And I I think one of the the reasons I used to be very worried about competition when I was building under canvas, I used to, I used to stress about it a lot.

01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:06.639
And you know, and part of that was well, we're first, and so like there's like everybody's coming for us.

01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:15.280
But what I realized eventually was that actually everyone else coming into the space was helping build the industry.

01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:31.360
And actually, if this if my business was ever gonna be a thing, uh I'm gonna need everybody else in the space investing in money and marketing and clamping, and that one advert for a glamp site is an advert for all glamp sites, right?

01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:43.599
And so, you know, there's this there's this holistic thinking and shape-shifting thinking that says, you know, I'm not I'm not just building this one tiny little thing here.

01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:46.639
What I'm trying to do is a much bigger thing.

01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:54.800
And when we think bigger, I genuinely think that helps us be more robust in so many ways.

01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:57.119
What's the future of Levondo look like?

01:03:57.280 --> 01:04:02.000
What's your in terms of like future design, what does that look like?

01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:02.719
Yeah.

01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:14.480
Well, we're we're planning that by 2030 we're trying to get all 100,000 hectares into designated nature reserve with as many internal fences down inside as possible.

01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:21.280
And the more land we can open up, then it it creates more possibilities for creating new camps.

01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:41.039
We'll probably expand the little camp that we've got here that we've built here first just a little bit, probably add another sort of two or three units on our first location, and then replicate building another little lodge in a different area around the mountain because you can only get so far in a few hours every time you go out and explore.

01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:42.800
So that's what we're thinking.

01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:44.159
Wonder there.

01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:44.400
Yeah.

01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:47.360
Is there a minimum night stay out there currently?

01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:55.360
We uh two only, but that's really only for practical reasons that it takes a while to get to us.

01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:56.000
So it's not really.

01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:57.840
It seems like a V Yeah.

01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:00.559
How long to drive from the nearest major airport?

01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:05.039
We pick people up from a commercial airport about an hour and a half away.

01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:12.320
So we're a quick 40-minute flight from Johannesburg up to Polakwani, and we pick people up from there, and that's about 90 minutes.

01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:13.039
So it's not bad.

01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:16.960
I thought it was Pretoria, and I figured that was like six, eight hours drive.

01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:19.039
It's about five hours to Pretoria.

01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:20.960
Yeah, it's about a five-hour drive.

01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:21.440
Yeah.

01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:22.079
Yeah.

01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:22.880
Okay, good.

01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:25.199
I'm glad there's a more of a little regional airport.

01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:26.880
There's a little regional airport, yeah.

01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:29.440
So people do a quick hop up and we come and get them.

01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:30.159
Yeah.

01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:37.199
So maybe we could take a moment to talk about few and far travel, which is maybe you could tell us about that.

01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:38.159
Yeah.

01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:45.360
Well, one of the things I realized as we were sort of building the lodge was I'm really obsessed by creating experiences.

01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.880
And I love I love travel.

01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:51.679
I absolutely love it with everything in me.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:59.519
And I put together a collection of places around the world, of partner sort of organizations.

01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:07.519
Of people with the same values as us, sort of creating extraordinary outdoor experiences.

01:06:07.679 --> 01:06:27.199
And I wanted to create a way for people to travel with us with going on adventures around the world in a very mindful way, connecting with independent operators who were crafting extraordinary experiences in their corner of the world.

01:06:27.519 --> 01:06:28.800
So that's what we do.

01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:54.719
We curate experiences, you know, one of a kind, custom experiences for groups and individuals to travel around the world with us and explore extraordinary places all over the place with the same ethos of trying to protect the planet, have extraordinary experiences, experience beautiful places, and learn about cultures and wildlife in that particular place.

01:06:54.880 --> 01:07:00.800
So that's what we do with our with our travel company is take people on journeys around the world.

01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:03.679
And how do you how does that how do you make money off that?

01:07:03.760 --> 01:07:08.079
Or like how does that from a business mechanics and partnership standpoint?

01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:14.639
Yeah, it's really simple actually, in that all hotels usually grant agents commission.

01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:31.599
So if I am booking our guests into an experience at a different hotel, say in Peru, I'm gonna book with that provider, our guests with that provider, and they're gonna give me, they're gonna give me commission for bringing my guests to stay with them.

01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:45.920
So just like you know, you give 15-20% away to Expedia or Booking.com or Airbnb, a travel agent tour operator usually gets 15-20% from the accommodations that they book for their client.

01:07:46.079 --> 01:07:48.320
And we just piece all those together.

01:07:48.559 --> 01:07:55.360
So it doesn't cost the client anymore, and that the hotel pays us commission on bringing guests to them.

01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:58.880
And you get to go out and try all these experiences firsthand before.

01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:00.719
I get to go and try them all.

01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:03.599
Yes, I do, which is a particular privilege.

01:08:04.079 --> 01:08:16.239
I've got so many amazing friends now around the world who've got extraordinary, extraordinary properties, and I just love opening the window for people to experience.

01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:31.119
I I I mean, for me, independently owned is perfection because you've got soul, you've got curated experiences, you've got boutique properties that that have an identity all of their own.

01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:41.359
And so we love we love sort of taking people to places they and to stay with sort of small hotels that they may never have heard of.

01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:42.960
But I love I love food.

01:08:43.039 --> 01:08:46.479
I'm a big foodie, so food's a big piece of our journey.

01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:57.920
So we love we love Relais Chateau properties for that for that reason, and they're all independently owned boutique hotels, usually in extraordinary outdoor destinations with amazing food.

01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:03.039
So um, we our own hotel just became part of that collection this last year.

01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:05.279
So we level that network quite a lot.

01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:06.319
But yeah.

01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:23.039
I might have to introduce you to some a friend of the podcast who came on who's got an unreal property of I think it's like seven, eight hundred acres organic sheep farm in New Zealand, doing an incredible concept of a landscape resort there.

01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:26.239
Is that and it's is that something you want to intro on?

01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:28.079
Yeah, totally up my street.

01:09:28.239 --> 01:09:28.720
Absolutely.

01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:36.720
Yeah, we're always looking for really unique places in extraordinary parts of the world to share with our guests, our travelers.

01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:37.119
Yeah.

01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:40.159
What's what's maybe your favorite experience that you've gotten?

01:09:40.479 --> 01:09:44.000
And there's some insane ones listed on the website, the few and far traveled.

01:09:44.560 --> 01:09:51.680
All of those trips I have been privileged to be able to do, and they they all made the grade because, and that's why they're on the list.

01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:54.159
But yeah, there is some amazing places around the world.

01:09:54.319 --> 01:10:04.479
I I I mean, other than I'm a bit biased towards Africa, obviously, and Africa is extraordinary because of her, you know, her amazing wildlife.

01:10:04.640 --> 01:10:08.159
Uh, and there's nowhere really in the world like Africa for wildlife.

01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:17.359
But one of my very top favorite, completely different experiences was cruising the Amazon on a riverboat.

01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:23.760
My son took my my 12-year-old son at the time, he's a bit older now, but maybe 11, 12.

01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:52.399
I took he and I went on an adventure to Peru, and we swam with pink dolphins, we fished for piranhas, he had tarantulas crawling up his shoulder, we trekked through the jungle, we swung through the trees, we watched sloth, we ate extraordinary Peruvian food, and he and I just made memories every single day, and we mudbathed in the river in one spot.

01:10:52.560 --> 01:10:58.319
I mean, we did so many cool things, and that trip was and that trip's on our website too.

01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:32.960
I mean, it's it was like it's you know, the automy of can we create sort of multi-generational experiences, learn about cultures, learn about the destruction of the Amazon, learn about what we're doing to preserve these places, meet the communities that live on the banks of the river, learn how they live, learn what life's like, expose ourselves, buy their buy their products that they're their handicrafts that they're making, support their communities, and and have an amazing time.

01:11:33.039 --> 01:11:41.199
And I that for me is kind of the that's the magic of the trips that we we curate and we send people on.

01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:49.359
And that probably from one of my all-time favorites outside of of being in Africa.

01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:59.600
How do you manage your time between both pretty massive undertakings in and of themselves, few and far travel and few and far in the Levondo?

01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:02.720
How do you balance that?

01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:04.000
Is one taking more or less?

01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:06.319
Is one providing more income than the other?

01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:10.640
Well, I I am traveling an inordinate amount of time of the time.

01:12:10.960 --> 01:12:16.239
I just got back from South Africa a couple of days ago, and I'm not really sleeping through the night at the moment.

01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:19.600
So that helps get a lot done when you learn sleeping.

01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:23.359
With little sleep from a articulation standpoint.

01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:25.920
So that's not so great.

01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:41.119
Um I I don't know how to answer that, Connor, other than to say I have always had to build extraordinary teams around me to help execute on the things that I'm trying to do.

01:12:41.359 --> 01:12:46.000
And none of these things are things that I can pull off all by myself.

01:12:46.159 --> 01:13:11.920
They require, they require very talented people who care about the same things I care about, who are highly motivated, who are able to work with very limited supervision, because I just don't have time to supervise anybody, and who are on the sort of, you know, bought in with our vision of this is what we're trying to do, this is what we're trying to grow, this is what we're trying to build.

01:13:12.319 --> 01:13:18.640
And uh and so I very heavily rely on great people around me to make things happen.

01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:23.920
What's the biggest challenge either of those at at both those businesses?

01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:29.680
I there's there are so many challenges.

01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:31.279
It's not easy.

01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:36.000
No, it's really not easy, and I would love it if it was easy.

01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:39.680
I really, really would love it if it was easy.

01:13:40.079 --> 01:13:51.359
Um, I was writing in my journal just this morning about the pain and discomfort of having to push through things that are complex.

01:13:52.239 --> 01:14:01.119
And it reminded me of a time in my early days in my under canvas journey that sometimes when things just get really hard, you just want to quit, right?

01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:07.520
The instinct to just give up when things are hard is quite high.

01:14:07.920 --> 01:14:13.840
And and it's still, I will say this out loud, it is still high for me now.

01:14:15.439 --> 01:14:26.880
And it doesn't that doesn't get any easier actually, because in some ways you can lull yourself into a weird sense of well, I've built a successful business before.

01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:31.840
This should be easy for this to be successful, and it just doesn't work like that.

01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:43.840
Um still have to go back to the beginning of the journey and start from scratch all over again and fight the good fight like you had to fight it from the beginning the last time you fought this good fight.

01:14:44.079 --> 01:15:01.600
And I, you know, I've done a lot of work with entrepreneurs over the last six, seven years, and I have said so many times, and I and I'm now finding myself saying it to myself again, that he or she who can stay in the ring longer than anyone else is the winner, right?

01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:27.199
Like that this really is a game of having courage to stay in the ring, and it's really hard sometimes to stay in the ring when the lions are coming for you and the gladiators are coming for you, and like you know, you feel like everyone's trying to kill you whichever way you turn, and and the bank account doesn't look very healthy, and you know, and you just think, well, this is all this is all a bit too much.

01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:30.800
It's really easy to just want to quit.

01:15:31.439 --> 01:15:43.840
And so I I do think one of the hardest things is holding your nerve when things are challenging and tough.

01:15:44.319 --> 01:15:59.680
Like going the distance, like it's a thing, like persevering when you are in distress and when it doesn't look that you know, everything doesn't look great and nothing's working out, and you have to pivot again.

01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:03.039
That that's it's just normal.

01:16:03.279 --> 01:16:18.399
And the hard part is having the staying power and the grip to be able to navigate the discomfort over and over and over and over again, and not you know, not expecting it to be a piece of cake, not being surprised when it's hard.

01:16:18.720 --> 01:16:23.039
Um I I think I think that's the most challenging thing.

01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:35.039
Yeah, and it's funny, I would imagine that even when under Canvas was at eight locations, most of that which were somewhat stabilized, you know, it's it's still hard.

01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:36.720
You're just solving bigger problems.

01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:38.479
You're just solving different problems.

01:16:38.640 --> 01:16:39.439
I mean, that's the thing.

01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:48.319
You're you're just you're you're evolving new problems, and you know, there's always some massive threat that could come and wipe you out.

01:16:48.560 --> 01:16:51.600
And you know, it's it's scary stuff.

01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:57.359
And you know, for us when we're building under canvas, we we bootstrapped under canvas for a very, very long time.

01:16:57.439 --> 01:17:08.239
So we lived on a knife edge really financially for for almost a decade, you know, and any one thing, any moment in time could have literally just taken us down.

01:17:08.720 --> 01:17:19.279
And that's that's you know, the the good it's there's a lot of trauma and and late nights.

01:17:19.520 --> 01:17:31.600
But the one, you know, because it's so hard in high stakes, you know, from a livelihood perspective, like you're if it was bored, sorry, if it was easy, it would be boring.

01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:33.920
And if it was boring, you wouldn't be engaged.

01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:37.760
And if you weren't engaged, you wouldn't be loving it.

01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:38.319
Yeah.

01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:40.880
So it's this weird paradox.

01:17:41.279 --> 01:17:43.119
It is a really weird paradox.

01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:52.800
And I I do often think that entrepreneurs we are a strange bunch of entrepreneurs, people who want to do this for fun are are slightly diverse.

01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:57.039
But that's I think that's the the joy of creating things, right?

01:17:57.119 --> 01:18:16.560
I mean, whether you're an artist or a writer or you know, an entrepreneur, when we're in the business of creating things, you know, there's there's there's a lot of risk involved, but there's also a lot of magic involved, and things can go well and things can go bad, and often it's both, right?

01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:28.159
And having to navigate the the highs and the lows and navigate that mentally and emotionally, I think it's one of the hardest things about this journey.

01:18:29.520 --> 01:18:33.279
Yeah, it's like who, you know, like you said, it's a war of attrition.

01:18:33.359 --> 01:18:36.000
Or who can stay in the in the arena of the ring the longest?

01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:36.880
Who can stay?

01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:40.319
Yeah, who's got the staying power to stay and navigate it through?

01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:43.359
And I think those die don't die.

01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:43.920
Yeah, exactly.

01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:45.439
I mean, it's the hunger games out there.

01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:46.399
Don't die.

01:18:46.960 --> 01:18:48.800
Um, everybody's coming for you.

01:18:48.880 --> 01:18:50.239
Just stay alive.

01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:54.319
Oh man, it's tough.

01:18:54.720 --> 01:19:00.399
How are you using or taking advantage of AI in your businesses?

01:19:00.560 --> 01:19:02.720
And I guess when do you think it should be used?

01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:05.439
And are there any instances where it should not be used?

01:19:06.479 --> 01:19:10.479
I haven't found an instant where it should not be used yet.

01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:20.800
But I guess I guess I would say on that front, I I still think we all want human interaction.

01:19:21.279 --> 01:19:31.520
I I can tell when I'm talking to a robot, I can tell when I'm talking to a chatbot, I can tell when someone's giving me pat answers, and I don't want any of that.

01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:46.880
But I I I want human interaction, I want to talk to human people, I want to engage with real answers in real time with real solutions.

01:19:47.119 --> 01:19:59.840
Um, but at the same time, I love this idea of being understood as a customer better because of what AI can teach us.

01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:09.359
Like I want to be cured, I want things to be curated for me because of what you know about, like what AI can know about me.

01:20:09.600 --> 01:20:32.479
I I want to create experiences for people that really like absolutely blow them away because of what I can know about them through AI, and that can help me develop experiences and develop material and information that resonates in a really, really strong way.

01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:47.119
So I I am using AI as a tool to speed me up on almost everything, but I am not allowing it to be the final word yet.

01:20:47.439 --> 01:20:52.319
I still think it's a tool to enhance us.

01:20:54.000 --> 01:20:59.039
It's I don't think of it as a tool to do everything for us.

01:20:59.359 --> 01:21:02.800
I don't want to use it as a tool to do everything for us.

01:21:03.039 --> 01:21:10.000
I think when we do that, we lose the the je ne sais quoi of human interaction.

01:21:10.640 --> 01:21:15.680
And particularly in hospitality, that's where the magic lies.

01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:18.079
So I I don't want to lose that.

01:21:18.640 --> 01:21:37.199
But I do want to use it as a tool to make me smarter, faster, not waste time on things I don't need to waste time on and and to help lever, you know, lever knowledge, power, insights to our advantage.

01:21:39.359 --> 01:21:42.479
What what is what's what's next?

01:21:42.640 --> 01:21:44.239
What are next steps for few and far?

01:21:44.479 --> 01:21:45.279
Travel and few and far.

01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:50.720
Levando, and then are you looking to do more locations for yes, I am.

01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:54.079
Yeah.

01:21:54.319 --> 01:22:07.039
Yeah, I mean obviously we're trying to build our travel brand uh as a trusted brand in the market in a very sort of niche space, but I want to do large landscape work around the world.

01:22:07.359 --> 01:22:20.079
I want to, I said to my son when we first sort of started working on our carbon project in South Africa, I said, we're trying to sequester like a hundred thousand tons of carbon a year from this one project.

01:22:20.319 --> 01:22:31.600
And I said, So mum and dad have decided we'd love to do enough projects to to be sequestering like a million tons of carbon a year from all the all the projects that we do.

01:22:32.560 --> 01:22:34.960
And he looked at me, he's 17 now.

01:22:35.439 --> 01:22:37.199
And this was a couple of years ago.

01:22:37.279 --> 01:22:39.680
But he said, Is that it?

01:22:41.439 --> 01:22:46.239
And I was like, buddy, that's gonna be really hard to try and pull all that off.

01:22:46.399 --> 01:22:48.720
That's gonna be really, really challenging.

01:22:48.960 --> 01:23:10.159
But I loved the question because in his mind, you know, we've got this urgent climate crisis on our doorstep, and a million tons whilst being a large number for one individual to be taking on themselves is not enough.

01:23:10.319 --> 01:23:18.960
And I I love the way he was thinking and saying, you know, pushing the boundary to say, is that as big as you can think, mom?

01:23:19.520 --> 01:23:20.800
Is that all you've got?

01:23:21.039 --> 01:23:23.840
And I was like, well, okay, maybe it isn't.

01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:25.920
Maybe there's more in the tank there.

01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:26.880
I don't know.

01:23:27.279 --> 01:23:38.399
So, you know, I mean, the vision really would be I would like to not be the only hospitality entity in the world doing large-scale landscape carbon initiatives.

01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:40.560
And we are right now.

01:23:40.800 --> 01:23:50.800
We are the only hospitality entity in the world tackling large-scale carbon initiatives at the same time as being a hospitality entity.

01:23:52.000 --> 01:23:54.319
I shouldn't be the only woman in the world doing that.

01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:58.079
So again, I hope we I hope we lead.

01:23:58.960 --> 01:24:08.640
We're pioneers, and I but I hope other people will want to compete with that vision and that desire and take on that challenge in the same way.

01:24:08.880 --> 01:24:12.960
I hope we will inspire others to to do more.

01:24:13.680 --> 01:24:26.560
You know, I hope we stop talking about plastic straws and we start talking about carbon and zero waste and you know, net positive as opposed to just neutral.

01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:38.560
And I hope all that language starts to become much more normal for hospitality entities, particularly the outdoor hospitality space, because we are the best position for doing that work.

01:24:39.199 --> 01:24:40.560
Inspiring stuff.

01:24:40.880 --> 01:24:42.000
No settling.

01:24:42.800 --> 01:24:44.000
No settling.

01:24:44.239 --> 01:24:46.560
My bank account would definitely like me to settle.

01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:48.640
Let's just say that out loud.

01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:59.279
What I what I've learned is it doesn't really matter what is in my bank account because my dreams are always seem to be bigger than we can afford.

01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:02.560
And I actually think that's a really good, healthy place to be.

01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:08.479
It means we're we're we're dreaming, we're pushing ourselves, and we're taking on challenges bigger than ourselves.

01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:11.520
And when we do that, I think we're the most fulfilled.

01:25:12.239 --> 01:25:34.720
Who out there is going some smart hotel fund or large hospitality group has got to be smart enough to reach out to you and say, we will bankroll your projects, you find the land, you do the design, give us a return, and we'll you know, bankroll your acquisition and development.

01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:37.439
Like that's gotta that'd be my miracle right there.

01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:39.279
That's what I'm praying for, Connor.

01:25:41.439 --> 01:25:47.920
Gotta get Amon Group on the phone or something and talk some sense into them.

01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:57.520
Someone, someone who who can buy into the vision because the reality is, is we we know how to make, we know how to make money in this space.

01:25:57.600 --> 01:25:59.520
We know how to build profitable entities.

01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:18.960
And I think one of the benefits, and I say this for everybody listening, of not having a lot of resources, of not having, you know, someone bankrolling your your project, is you learn to get very creative and profit-minded because otherwise you won't last very long.

01:26:19.279 --> 01:26:22.239
You can't afford to make mistakes or spending.

01:26:22.479 --> 01:26:26.720
No, you can't afford to throw money at pro problems and just hope for the best.

01:26:26.800 --> 01:26:32.159
You have to get really good at being very disciplined with generating ROI.

01:26:32.560 --> 01:26:35.199
And that's what this that's what this takes.

01:26:35.840 --> 01:26:38.479
And we we know how to do that.

01:26:38.720 --> 01:26:48.800
And you know, I that's that's the challenge, I think, for this space is to to attract more capital into this space.

01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:55.199
We all got to get good at demonstrating this is this industry's a good bet because we know how to make returns.

01:26:55.840 --> 01:26:58.399
Do you have a full-time PR person, few and far?

01:26:59.039 --> 01:26:59.520
We do.

01:26:59.680 --> 01:27:04.560
We have an amazing agency in LA that represents us.

01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:04.960
Yeah.

01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:05.520
Okay.

01:27:05.760 --> 01:27:16.479
Because I gotta imagine that is like the the the the product and the story and you as the face of the brand is all there, right?

01:27:16.560 --> 01:27:17.520
It just needs to get out.

01:27:17.600 --> 01:27:20.800
It just needs to get out there, and I think it will just be devoured.

01:27:21.199 --> 01:27:26.000
Just and then I just feel like the PR piece is so strong for what you're working on.

01:27:26.319 --> 01:27:27.199
Yeah, it does.

01:27:27.279 --> 01:27:28.640
We've got lots of stories to tell.

01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:29.840
That's yeah.

01:27:30.079 --> 01:27:30.560
Yeah.

01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:31.600
Amazing.

01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:34.239
Is there anything else?

01:27:34.479 --> 01:27:38.319
Is there anything else that's your on your horizon that we haven't talked about?

01:27:39.199 --> 01:27:40.880
We've covered a lot of ground.

01:27:41.119 --> 01:27:41.439
We did.

01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:43.439
But a lot of ground.

01:27:44.079 --> 01:27:46.079
I think the future's bright.

01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:48.319
I think the future's tough.

01:27:49.039 --> 01:27:59.680
We're we're we're still living in an economic climate that's I mean, we I feel like since COVID rolled around, we haven't had a we haven't had an easy year.

01:28:00.640 --> 01:28:04.640
Yet, and I don't know that we're gonna get one anytime soon.

01:28:05.199 --> 01:28:24.079
But I I think I think the opportunities for this industry and this space are enormous, and there's still a lot of work to be done, and not just for building, you know, cool places to stay, but actually doing meaningful work with solving some of our big world problems.

01:28:24.560 --> 01:28:46.239
And you can pick a problem, don't have to pick we don't all have to pick the same problem, but I I I think our opportunities, you know, are enormous to this industry to make a real difference in our world, whether that's race, uh, diversity, women, climate, and the environment.

01:28:46.399 --> 01:28:50.159
I mean, we could go on and on and on with with choosing issues, right?

01:28:50.560 --> 01:28:56.000
But I think our our opportunities are are great if we if we'll choose to stand in the gap.

01:28:57.439 --> 01:28:58.479
Yeah, well said.

01:28:58.720 --> 01:28:59.279
Well said.

01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:02.319
Any asks of the audience for what you're working on?

01:29:02.479 --> 01:29:03.920
Any yeah, any asks?

01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:09.680
Oh, well, I obviously please come and stay with us.

01:29:10.159 --> 01:29:19.119
We would love either to create a really extraordinary adventure for you somewhere in the world or to host you at our reserve in Africa.

01:29:19.760 --> 01:29:24.800
So if you're thinking about going to Africa, most definitely come and stay with us.

01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:26.239
We we need you.

01:29:26.479 --> 01:29:29.520
We need you to help us do the work that we're trying to do.

01:29:29.600 --> 01:29:33.039
So yeah, please, please come and travel with us.

01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:35.840
Yeah, well agreed.

01:29:36.159 --> 01:29:43.680
Give her a follow on social media, or better yet, leave her a Google review on her property or tell your friends about it, or go stay there.

01:29:43.760 --> 01:29:44.720
Anything you can.

01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:46.159
I know I will.

01:29:46.640 --> 01:29:51.279
And Sarah, it's always such a an honor and a privilege to have you on.

01:29:51.359 --> 01:29:55.920
I feel like every 60 seconds I just kept thinking to myself, like, oh, what's such a badass.

01:29:56.479 --> 01:30:00.560
Um it's very inspiring to have you back on the show.

01:30:00.640 --> 01:30:06.640
And I I look forward to keeping in touch and seeing how far you come, you know, six months from now, 12 months from now.

01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:09.439
I'm definitely bullish on you and what you're working on.

01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:10.479
Thank you.

01:30:10.640 --> 01:30:12.239
Thank you for the encouragement, Connors.

01:30:12.479 --> 01:30:13.119
Appreciate it.